thanks dime that was really helpful. I’ve also got some info to add on just approaching since its related to the vortex:
Approach 1: jump low hard kunai
All i see ibukis do is neckbreaker. While that’s a good move when the opponent starts blocking low you eat a free combo. A good way is to go to get right outside of their sweep range and you can jump hp low kunai into a target combo. You can even block in time if the kunai gets blocked and he tries to reversal. This also beats low pokes. You can however get hit in the air attempting this but its hard to react to imo. I guess another added effect is if you train your opponent thinking you’re gonna cross him up, this is a good way to go.
Approach 2: df-mk slide
This can work but there’s a few problems. I don’t know if it’s just me but i get hit after doing this every time i try a combo from lp. So either back dash or ex kazegiri.
Approach 3: TC 7 ( b.mk, f.mk )
It basically puts you quite a bit closer to them, and it beats out people holding down back. This also has combo potential but it’s a 1 frame link (uncomfirmed) after you connect the overhead. after this depending on the distance you can combo into c.lk to tsumuj, or do st lp into target combo if you’re close. That can lead to a special but it’s pretty execution heavy.
I’m sure there’s alot more ways to get in but those are pretty effective, at least in my experience. Add this on with jump ins, cross ups and dashes and ibuki can be a real threat.
All those mixups that were posted are vulnerable to mash jab, srk, and ultra. Especially the double HK command dash ones. I know because I’ve been trying that stuff, and testing the waters with her command dash. Maybe its just me though.
Even though she has the command dash, I’ve been more successful playing more conservative against online people at least. One that has been working for me, but its crappy and random. Is just doing one hk command dash and then doing a random super to watch a low forward mash or other mashes. Unfortunately I cant punish jab mashing with this, though. However, I’m use to 3s ibuki so the chip damage I get seems like a fair return.
glad that some/ one!!! of you like the mixups… as far as people ultraing out of them it seriously hasnt even been attempted once on me… its all about ALL of the mixups my dudes.
mixup 1 is the ex kazekiri mixup, its the first mixup that i ever do usually and that is for good reason:
jab spam like you guys say just kills the higher level mixups. so like all things, you have to train your opponent not to srub out and mash that jab/crouch tech/stand tech.
ex kazekiri does this very well, as it actually seems to beat other ex reversals alot of the time.
once the opponent is more pliant, is when you bust out mixup 2 and 3.
ive been playing my opponents long enough to the point where the kazekiri mixup from 1 is no longer free damage cause people know that i WILL do only that as that can easily win me a round 2 if i hit 3 kazekiris on a waking opponent… its 480 damage and i generally have nothing else better to spend my ex meter on other than maybe ex tsumuji in combos.
but yeah, train the opponent with mixup 1 before moving onto the other mixups… it makes ibukis life alot easier.
and its the reason why i listed it as the FIRST mixup.
mixup 1 IS NOT a blocking mixup, its a beat throw tech/standtech mixup that sets up the other mixups down the line.
by itself its useless cause its only a trick, but when the other mixups start coming in is when it turns into good solid damage in a mixup form.
also the 3 mixups are MUCH better versus motion based characters… its not nearly so good versus 360 characters nor down up charge characters except for honda. the reason why it works versus honda is cause he loses charge for ex headbutt and instead needs to do buttslam in order to have a reversal… buttslam gets destroyed on block by ultra 1… so you see where this mixup is going… the unfortunate part is that ibuki will guess wrong sometimes and end up eating a wakeup ochio sometimes cause of the need to block buttslam… but then again thats why this mixup doesnt work THAT well versus down up reversals.
For really low Kunai I use the same motion I use with Akuma( :qcf::uf::r::df::d: ) of course it’s reversed on p2 side. I find that this gives me a lot of consistency with tk air projectiles. Why? I don’t know, but try it maybe? There is a minimum height so if you try to input it like actual TK moves(ala hooligan w/e or fei longs move) you will just get a j.p.
I’m certainly no pro, but if you SJC the cr. hk s. hk reset and throw a low mp kunai, they have to counter-intuitively block low as you come down or they will be hit by the kunai and you get to do the combo again. The second time you SJC it, throw a late hp kunai and they will have to block high or eat the combo. Makes for an excellent mixup online, at least.
I never do Super jump to make a Vortex for the main reason that it simply is not as awesome as [walk a bit, delay regular jump], which I will explain the options later. Here’s what I usually do after a Neck Breaker :
Neck breaker, walk a bit, delay regular jump, kunai LP
The main difficulty is to do it is to jump as late as possible, because otherwise, reversals will get you, then if you do perfect setups, here’s the two main possibility there is :
A : You throw is so that the kunai hits very low, but in front of the character (then Ibuki lands backwards) So far, it beats all reversals (if not, they whiff anyway), and most importantly, if they block the kunai, you get a totally safe blockstring with stand LK or stand LP, which means the opponent cannot mash a DP out of this. The only thing that would screw this up is a backdash, in which case you can’t do anything but block.
B - You throw the kunai as you are crossing him up, and the kunai hits him in the back. Correctly done, you still avoid reversals (they will mostly whiff), and you can screw backdashes and for most of the cast, if you catch them backdashing, you can juggle with a Raida (still I’m not sure you can confirm it, maybe with some practice or reading your opponent’s reactions). If they block the kunai though, there’s nothing reliable you can do but block (no safe blockstring on it).
Here’s how I usually do the A setup : [media=youtube]TlUJtkC66RI[/media]
You can’t see it but I’m mashing DP with Ryu after blocking a Kunai and it doesn’t come out.
With SJ kunai, you can’t do anything like that, that’s why I really don’t believe SJ kunai is a good way to land vortex, because you’re letting options away.
^^^ but in that vid that you posted you arent crossing up ryu are you? the one time that ryu blocked he blocked regualrly, not like a crossup.
i basically think that both superjump kunai and regular jump kunai are decent… it may come down to preference… however regular jump kunai has 2 distinct advantages on super jump kunai:
its a HELL of a lot better if ibuki has super stocked, so that pesky super wont come out and waste all of your meter.
its alot harder to react to the kunai being thrown from a regualr jump than it is to one being thrown from a super jump… one of my opponents plays gouken and i can never use the syuper jump kunai against him cause he always reactively does counter when he sees it from a super jump… no mixup potential at all.
but i can mix it up alot more when i do a regular jump into nothing to bait the wiffed counter… only works for the non super jump version though.
If the kunai in this setup hit exactly like the SJ Kunai i did in my video, then its the same.
SJ Kunai Setup is also safe, can crossup or not crossup, and provides safe blockstrings.
It’s possible, but the timing is tight, with the SJ i just tried a create this special situation where the kunai/jumpin is safe and you have the least ammount of things you could do wrong,
there are just 2 things you have to do right,
SJ Timing (delayed)
Kunai Timing (to crossup/not crossup, and still be safe)
There is no need for a small step, wich could be to far, late/early and so on but i will give it a try too.
the walk in one just just gives the oppent something else to react to. I think they both are good
and much like dime i have the same problem with gouken my friend plays him and does the same thing killing the SJ Kunia setup to vortex but the walking my confuse hime enough for me to get it off or at the very least mixup.
@Dime im sure you have better execution then me so i dont get why this happens to you, i think you might just be doing the kunia to fast. Have you tried delaying it just a bit. What you saying sould like how i SJC off of cr.HP (in training mode) to super and i only get it when i do the motions really quickly.