I’m liking where this is going…
/subscribe for now and we’ll see how it turns out.
Abel: if you’re non-crossup safe jumping, might as well option select throw instead of backdash.
Boxer: I refuse to believe his wakeup is free. What is your plan to stop wakeup EX dash spam? Simply hk command dashing to get rid of his charge isn’t going to cut it.
Cammy: EX backfist gets her out but you should be able to reaction punish it.
Yeah that’s definitely smart idea to use OS throw. Especially off of a safe jump against Abel…
I dunno at least the Boxers that i’ve played against and from match vids that I’ve watched once u start mixing the safe jumps and kunais rog is kinda fucked IMO. Once you get him accustomed to worrying about ambiguous j.LK or fake j.MK crosses into TC4 he has to respect your kunai. Using his genearl escapes from kunai vortex will be risky if he feels u may continue forcing safe jumps down his throat. Which at that point the safe jump or kunai vortex mix up off normal jumps starts to become strong vs. him. Especially in this version of the game where HP neckbreak leaves you at a perfect position to do pretty much anytime of vortex option available.
Stopping wake up EX dash spam in itself is pretty easy by just throwing him on his wake up once in a while after a safe jump once u have him accustomed to not using EX headbutt. Once the Rog player feels that EX headbutt isn’t worth doing it’s practically the only other reversal he’s going to do on wake up other than TAP. The odds are in your favor at that point. Pretty much all of the rogs i’ve fought online any way pretty much back down to doing almost nothing but blocking once u really get them going on wake up. It takes a few tricks to condition them but not having anything close to a 3 or 4 frame reversal and being a charge based character makes him easy to take advantage of.
I think these couple vids here are good at showing how scared rog will be of you on wake up with good okiezeme and how generally limited he is. You pretty much just force him to burn out his meter trying to escape and then he’s about as free as it can get on thew wake up.
[media=youtube]CpQAsiHvVBY&feature=player_embedded#[/media]!
[media=youtube]U1mZYjO-Qyc&feature=player_embedded#[/media]!
In the second vid specifically you can see how Acqua employs the HK command dash on wake up trick to break Rog’s back charge and force him to lose his ability to EX dash punch immediately before hitting him with a jab combo on his wake up.
Examples:
Video 1
2:38 - Ibuki does safe (super) jump crossup j.LK and Boxer simply EX dash uppers away.
Video 2
1:31 - Ibuki does non crossup vortex after a MK.tsumuji knockdown and Boxer simply EX dash uppers away.
It’s difficult to mix the safe jumps and vortex against Boxer, when simply EX dashing away saves him the trouble of having to guess what to do. Throwing him on wake up after a safe jump? So you do j.LK immediately followed by throw? Then you’ll have to worry about the throw whiffing, in case he blocked and is in blockstun, or took the hit and is in hit stun. And throw whiff = jab spam to headbutt to ultra.
Yeah if you cross up Balrog with j.LK he will get away but the idea is to let him get away to force him to burn the meter. If he gets away it’s not the biggest deal in the world because if u played the matchup right u should have landed enough hits and knocked him down enough times where him having to burn the meter just to get away will play against him. That’s why if you’re afraid he’s going to EX dash out u should just not cross him up so he’s forced to deal with whatever pressure u wanna utilize after safe jump.
Obviously he’s going to get away from kunai vortex with EX dash that’s one of his main escapes. Though u have to think about the more important aspect of what happens there which is Rog having to burn more meter just to not die. Which from there the match just pretty much comes down to spacing and Rog knows if u hit him with anything he’s back to being on his ass again and the next time u will either use a mix up that he wont be able to dash out of or he’ll be out of EX meter and free to vortex. After Rog got away Acqua was still able to land another knockdown and could have just went for kunai vortex to win as Rog had no meter. Instead he opted to do a safe jump into raida to try to bait a TAP. Which is smart because when Rogs dont have meter that’s usually what they opt to go for since TAP is their only non meter escape out of vortex.
if rog is being predictable about ex dash escape on wakeup. Emptyjump throw him with safejump timing.
-dime
So what, your solution is to just mass knockdowns until he’s out of meter? He can play that game all day long because he doesn’t necessarily need to spend meter outside of trying to get out of vortex. Almost like Dictator except instead of teleport, he’ll have TAP.
Knockdowns are hard enough to come by against good players. It’s difficult to just hit Boxer with “anything” when his normals are much better than ours.
I think this might be our only option, although empty jumps are slightly less ambiguous than the standard vortex mixup.
With Blanka U2, I’ve never been hit by the full 500 damage AA U2 during a kunai vortex before. I dunno if it’s a flaw in his timing or what, but I get tagged by the first hit of the U2 and then he gets hit out of it by the kunai, so it was a trade in my favor. Because of that, I instruct all Blanka players here to use the ground version of U2, because that both knocks away the kunai and catches her on her landing.
For Rose: “Kills all kunai vortex except a PERFECTLY spaced super jump kunai.”
What do you mean by this? Are you saying if you do a perfect vortex, the kunai becomes unblockable?
As for Gief, you can safe jump him if you aim for his head (vulnerable part of the lariat). Preferrably with j.MK because it can crossup. You can use j.LK as well but keep in mind it has less blockstun/hitstun. You can also option select neckbreaker to punish a wakeup EX banishing flat if you crossup, or a wakeup backdash. If you don’t crossup with j.MK, neckbreaker shouldn’t come out if Gief does EX banishing flat because he’ll be there to absorb the j.MK. It’s a perfect safe jump vortex setup.
Yeah basically what im saying is that there’s a specific way you can space the kunai during a super jump that will blow Rose out of the ultra and land u a free target combo. It’s just it’s very specific and easy to mess up. If you time it even slightly wrong she can block and you’ll get hit but it’s there to use.
This is a great thread.
For rose he’s right
There are three senarios
You beat u2 clean
Trade with one orb
Or your timing is off, she blocks and you get messed up
I don’t if you guys would consider using this at all but I love meaty c.mp
Especially for corner pressure
But if you whiff the c.mp and command dash when she has.u2
Ex soul throw comes out for easy punish
I don’t think its worthy of abuse but it makes them think right
^ huh? And why are you posting in like a poem-format or something?
It’s easier on my phone
I was just saying you can kunai u2 results dependant on timing and spacing
And what about the part about meaty cr.MP?
Sorry u2 will beat a meaty c.mp so if you whiff instead you can command dash to the other side causing ex st which can then be punished
This was meant to be put in the strategy thread though
I am wondering about this. Does Gief have any good air to air moves? If a well spaced j.MK can stuff his lariat, he certainly cannot use it as an antiair. And since Gief is so tall and you’ll hit him well before you land, his EX german suplex will likely just whiff. I can only think of his neutral jump headbutt move and maybe j.fierce or something.
As for neutral jump, what’s wrong with that?
cause you are in a bad position. even if j.mk stuffs lariat its usually because the gief didnt do crouch lariat. also if stuffed the j.mk usually is thrown out early and doesnt have enough hitstun to combo off of, so you have to guess between a mashed 360 or lariat whhen landing… and thats when you actually beat lariat. against a good gief that crouch lariats the best you are ever going to do is trade, and thats horribly in giefs favor. getting beat by AA lariat cleanly is ridiculously in his favor as well.
so you put all those things together and its not smart to neutral jump gief unless the character has a high hitstun move that cleans lariat out and easily combos on hit. other than that you are doing something VERY foolish when neutral jumping a good gief… or even a bad one cause of the mashy bs you have to deal with even on hit.
atleast thats why i dont neutral jump gief and why i almost never see it in high level videos… its a GOOD way to die.
-dime
I thought it meant neutral jumping at mid screen, not point blank on his wakeup.
Sorry, my xbox died so I can’t test alot of this stuff…but this is what i’ve got in the roledex, that I know works that hasn’t already been mentioned.
OS and general wakeup:
(Lord Bipson)
With meter Bi§son is vulnerable to a few key safejumps and option selects. Some of these are distance dependant so keep that in mind.
- Post Neckbreaker/tsumuji low after TC4* (Use c.mk/c.mp to time your safe jumps for best results)
Jump in lk> QCF hk+mk (HK command dash OS TC safejump)
Pros:
- must be blocked high twice
- dashes through EX scissors, EX Head stomp, EX Devils Reverse, U2 safe, U1 safe with option to punish his recovery on reaction on all except ex scissors unless near the corner.
- catches backwards teleport leaving you in prime position for a full combo
- if you have EX NB/Ultra 2 it is possible to catch forward teleport during it’s recovery on reaction
- upon wiff of the lk, mk will not come out making it unpunishable by all of Bipsons reversals if you opt to not OS
notes: This is best used after you’ve taught the opponent not to use EX PC by using OS EX Kazagari
Cons:
- loses to EX Psycho Crusher though you only get hit by the tail end leaving you both at neutral space wise upon tech.
- not too damaging for ibuki, but costs you momentum.
Instant air Kunai
Pros:
- makes all EX moves wiff
- ambigous
- if kuani is thrown correctly (somewhere between 11 o’clock & 12 o’clock) EX reversals cannot be autocorrected to hit ibuki
- forward teleport will result in auto correct oddly enough, and leave bison right infront of ibuki begging her to punish him
- catches all non perfect reversal timings with crossup kunai
- good for pressuring Bison near the corner as a forward teleport escape will result in putting him back in the corner
Cons:
- loses to Ultra 1/2 outright
- Can be hard to capitalize on bisons recovery if he uses EX PC/Scissors with a punish…though you can get good positioning
note: IMO best option until Bison gains Ultra. Best reward for lowest risk
[Crossup] j.lk > QCB mk+hk (OS EX kazagari)
Pros:
- 2 hit must be blocked high twice
- Beats EX Autocorrect PC/Scissors, catches the tip of EX headstomp if timed correctly even if it’s air controlled
- messes up Ultra 1/2 motion
note: Basically covers all the same bases as regular safejump OS EX Kazagari with the added bonus of catching EX headstomp (forward OS loses to EX headstomp)
Cons:
- Teleport allows Bison to punish pretty easily just the same as regular safe jump EX Kazagari OS
- If timed poorly, can get rocked by Bisons Ultra 1
Empty Jump/HK Command Dash low/meaty crossover
Pros:
- Eliminates all of bisons options Except EX headstomp, Devils reverse and Ultra 2…though they all can be blocked/avoided and punished horribly
- Ultra 2/EX headstomp/Devils Reverse can be delt with with MP OS Command Dash and EX Kazagari if timed correctly (EX Kazagari Invincibility frames beat out Bisons)
Cons:
- Not as ambigous
- Meaties Can get eaten by Auto Corrects if you are too late with your crossover
Chun-li
reserved
Blanka
reserved
All the other hard matchups…
reserved…lol