Ahhhhhh, that makes sense. Thats pretty cool. Korea is on top of it.
Thanks Pimp Willy
Add me. I have a feeling we’ll be able to win a few :razzy:
Natureboy.759
So, I was thinking about it and it sure seems to get less foreign friendly after these 3 events. I mean basically the A class players and the S class players get to play, and then to compete against the bottom A Class players you have to be in the top 32 battle.net players. That gets hard to rectify across different regions, so unless they invite the top 8 from each region it’s not really fair globally, and then those top 8 might not even be able to make it. Seems to skew Korean pretty heavily, I’d much prefer the open format they do now. I guess it depends how those 32 players get invited to play versus the A class players.
Also, time for GSL discussion
gsl
Spoiler
Wow, such a great set of games. I was seriously surprised at nearly every game, except maybe Idra.
Jinro playing Moon, and manhandling him for most of the games was surprising. I mean moon knows his stuff, and Jinro able to beat him was huge for the foreign scene. The guy is just very calm and plays super smart, I think he REALLY has a good shot at top 8.
Idra playing MVP was pretty expected. I like Idra but I don’t think he’s kept up with the game as much. Maybe hes just getting paired against the best players early all the time, but really I’d expect a player of his supposed calibur to actually step it up and win. Clutching out a win on Steppes of War when he was down 0-1 was magic. Heres hoping he collects himself and does well with his S class ranking next season.
Meanwhile, watching a P take out CheckPrime was really eye opening. I thought he had no chance of winning, and yet here he was holding his own. I’m liking the stargate play out of P versus Z lately, it’s really getting the job done. It just sucks because for P to win, it seems to rely more on Z making a mistake than P doing something amazing. Throw a 4 gate at them and make sure they defend perfectly, get some stargate units out and hope they don’t get off a good infestation/hydra combo. Still I think with 4 toss in the top 16 my tossless top 8 prediction is probably wrong, and we’ll see at least 1 sneak through.
And then finally, watching PoltPrime actually dethrone the emperor was awesome. Thor rush in game 1 was awesome with sweet micro on both sides. Perfectly placed thors vs perfectly placed tanks. Then the second thor showed up and it was game over. Then Boxer comes back and shows why hes the emperor with a huge bio push just laughably destroying his opponent. Then polt prime comes in with sweet non sieged tank gameplay versus marines to clutch out the win; even boxer engaged that first fight thinking he’d win and got owned, that was just sweet.
That also means Jinro plays against Polt Prime instead of Boxer, which of course would have been awesome to see, but he probably will go into the game mentally more prepared. Less intimidation. Although watching Jinro beat boxer to make Top 8 and S class would have been nifty.
Man, Protoss have been lacking so much this gsl… They are going to get a serious upgrade soon from Blizzard I hope
gsl
Spoiler
Getting the bad spawn positions on metalopolis is worse than playing on steppes of war for zerg. You have no safe spot to place an overlord, and you have a ramp going down into your natural. Would have been a miracle if idra would have won on both steppes and meta vs a 2 rax in those positions.
gsl
Spoiler
Yeah, but he proved he COULD do it on Steppes. I don’t think that it was impossible, but there were some micro moments that Idra failed on. At the 3 minute mark he could have had a surround but bungled it a bit. Polts micro was just too awesome. His build wasn’t even all in, he didnt bring SCVs to the fight plus he took an expansion , so it wasn’t like the typical GSL marine SCV rush that always annoyed me
At the same time, I find it Ironic Idra has yet to deliver a top 8 finish yet is still considered so good. We’ll see how he holds down his S class
keeping it open to all is imo really bad. so many people dont show up which screws up alot of brackets. plus if one bracket is filled with noobs you could have a super noob playing in the ro64 which has been the case. with the class system at least youll know the players will shows up and have decent skill level. i think the process in which the current BW starleagues do it is the best way though.
GSL
[details=Spoiler]
Is it really that disadvantages to go pool first instead of hatch in close positions on metro? i see zergs go hatch first 85% of the time almost no matter what map they are playing. and then Zerg people go QQ over maps…[/details]
the QQ about toss reminds me of the zerg QQ just a few months ago its hilarious. everyones like, “nah just play protoss better”, kinda like how a few months ago everyone was like “just build nydus worms bro!”
of course, even when zerg were the worst race in the game, fruit dealer came along and won the first GSL. so i think its too early to comment about balance. however, i still feel that gateway units suck balls, blizz just needs to buff them. again, problem is FF is way too good, so if they buff gateway units, they need to nerf FF, maybe by increasing casting cost, otherwise P becomes imba. but i don’t mind playing the worst race in the game right now, because i know blizzard will give toss a badly needed buff sooner or later. stalkers should not be such a shitty worthless unit.
protoss are like the new zerg. they have now become a reactive race. especially with their inability to scout early game or do much harass, they have to guess what their opponent is doing, and respond properly. incorrect unit comp = LOSE.
blagh drunk starcraft is a mistake
lost to a terran cuz he was terran plus i was drunk. i knew he was getting banshees and prepared, but still lost too many probes. i think if i was sober i could’ve taken him… MAYBE.
but then next game i beat a protoss cuz he let me build pylons in his base, which is always a bad thing to have happen. cause you can warp in units into his base… maybe he was more drunk than me? i dunno.
lulz
GSL
[details=Spoiler]
BitByBit.Prime is lolz. I wonder if he got this far by going just ALL-IN. What was really funny was that Artosis was like “I wonder what kind of gas-heavy ALL IN this is going to be?” … then he actually went all in again. I really really wonder if he got to this point by going ALL IN in all his games!?"[/details]
^^^ The sad part is, he did.
toss in BW are still waiting for their buff.
i wouldnt put all your marbles on it
Maybe blizz should give Terran 8 rax option back again so these terran can go back to making Reaper rushes instead of marine/scv rushes. You can’t fault the guy for doing what it takes to win, I mean this is SRK after all, but at a certain point you have to question a games worthiness if that becomes the most viable strategy. Fucking MULES.
I think maybe if they’re worried about FF just dial down the time it lasts, or do something like make EMP clear force fields. Zerg can already burrow/move roaches underneath it, give terran a way around it then we’ll see. But personally I don’t feel like Stalkers are really that weak, it feels to me like Marines are just too powerful for their cost and are fucking up the curve for the rest of the units. But hell I’ll take a small buff to stalkers. Personally I’d like to see Charge/Blink cost reduced to at least match stim. Why should it be TWICE as expensive and higher on the tech tree, for something thats less of a buff? Stim becomes such a braindead choice for Terran to take. And fucking make concussive shells move up to 100/100 as well.
It’s hard because I don’t feel like its unwinnable with toss but I do feel like its an uphill battle, and making small changes could end up being too drastic of a balance shift.
This is most likely because Toss units are “supposed” to be more expensive and higher tech than the other races. this philosophy is prolly what prevents Blizz from making changes quickly since its much harder to balance out 3 different races who have totally different units. which is the reason why starcraft is so much better than other RTS where the races pretty much have all the same units.
with that being said i do think the stalkers should be buffed. something like 10 extra shield and Hp. would also love to see some sort of upgrade for immortals. one of the very few units that dont have an upgrade only for them.
You know what would be cool for immortals? If we could bring back the shield battery charger back. Oh you EMPed my Immortal? WHOOP! Their shields are back… or I’d take a +1 range upgrade… personally I like Immortals and I use them probably more than I should… same with warp prisms…
I toyed with an upgrade in the editor that let Pylons dump their shields to recharge a toss unit, was kind of fun : )
Give Immortals a siege tank like splash damage upgrade just for shits and giggles, should be fun : )
since i was completely hammered last night (still can’t believe i won a game WOW, and in retrospect i totally shoulda/coulda pwned that terran too), i’ll just rehash what i said in that post and another one i made a page back. most of this is just copy and pasted from better players than I posting in TL toss QQ threads. Also I’m apparently temp banned from TL, cause they are serious about trolling lol:
stalkers are way too fragile. without forcefields or blink they will die to pretty much anything. only problem is, everything else is much cheaper. also, they scale poorly with upgrades, so they get less and less viable into the endgame. a fully upgraded roach vs a fully upgraded stalker costs half as much yet has basically same amount of HP and do roughly same amount of damage. something is terribly wrong with that picture.
the problem is that toss units are the most expensive as well. colossus and HT cost a lot to tech to and take forever, and are equally fragile. this is compounded again by the problem that toss have no good scouting options early game. they have to play “blindly”. you have to have pretty good game sense. vs T for example, you harass the ramp with the initial stalker, and based on what they have there, make an educated guess and proceed accordingly. guess incorrectly and have the wrong unit comp when the first push comes = you dead. vs Z you have more options, and can do cute things like phoenix harass which gives you good scouting intel.
Other funny GSL moment
Spoiler
that dude who won because he made that one Ghost and shot off that one perfectly placed EMP that 0’d the Sentries’ energy blew my mind. I cant imagine what people would do if EMP could suddenly destroy forcefields.
If they’re going to make an early push its going to consist of some sort of infantry mix. I mean theres only so many early game units and only so much they can do
Seems to me that against Terran a conservative build order like say 2 Gateways into Robotics Facility and a healthy mix of Zealots, Stalkers, and Sentries is safe enough of an opening that you don’t have to have 100% intel early on. the 3 early gateway units together are pretty versatile early game, so I just don’t see the volatile balancing act you’re talking about because with concussive shells, none of those units alone really counter the Terran infantry units anyway, so you’re not going to be adjusting for their composition much… instead, you’ll be using all of them together to fight the Terran “well enough” to hold off for something else
GSL
[details=Spoiler]Yeah I saw that. That was disappointing for him I’m sure, if he stopped that attack he woulda been in a really good position to win, the EMP really screwed him.
I tend to get lazy and leave my stuff clumped too. Whenever a Terran scans my army I instantly try to scatter my spellcasters though, because often times theyre doing it to set up proper EMP placement on your sentries or HT before they charge in, and that’s what happened with this guy[/details]
I disagree, terran has many potential opening options vs a P, including banshee, banshee/raven (w PDD)/marine timing push (many threads on TL discussing how hard it is to stop), 1:1:1, an early MM push, standard MMM, or various all in cheeses such as marine/scv. There’s even a 2 thor/scv/marine timing push that’s being discussed on TL that’s apparently incredibly difficult to stop (strike cannon 1-shots immortals, units do not focus down the repairing scvs).
Imo, it matters, because if you know he’s doing an early MM push or some kind of marine/scv all in, you would most likely want to save chrono for units, have a few more sentries to be on the safe side. you will not want to waste money plopping down a robo. whereas with a standard MMM push you have enough time to get collosus up. for a 1:1:1 you’re probably gonna wanna delay your collosus so you can get a few more immortals out to be on the safe side vs his tanks. and of course vs banshee play you don’t want to get as many immortals. etc so on and so forth.
and for the banshee/raven pdd/marine timing push (the one used in GSL season 1 IIRC to devastating effect that everyones copying now), i’m reading that you actually need to go phoenix to stop it, otherwise pdd nullifies stalkers, banshees focus down collo, marines mop up. because lets face it, banshees rape stalkers, cause stalkers suck balls.
so I’m not trying to QQ or anything, I’m going to continue improving my shitty APM and bad mechanics, and get back into diamond, and then climb my way up once I’m there, but there is a lot of merit to complains that I’ve been reading.
Oh another thing, repairing scvs should receive highest attack priority, because PF and thors are too ridiculously broken as a result.
I didn’t say Terran doesn’t have a lot of options. but all of those midgame pushes you listed are scoutable with 2 gate robo and the build is flexible enough to react from there.
You said “guess incorrectly and have the wrong unit comp when the first push comes = you dead”, so I assumed you were talking about before observor, because why should you need to guess if you have an observor? But of the builds you listed, the early pushes are defendable with Gateway units, and the midgame pushes are scoutable
For example, if it’s what they’re doing, a Raven + Marine + banshee attack should not be a mystery to you. You should know its coming
I’ve heard people talk about repairing SCVs being given attack priority, but I don’t see that as a good thing for the long term health of the game because it just reduces the depth of the micro. You can already kill SCVs as is, you just have to micro to do it