Sadly that was supposed to happen Also, that was DC version at NEC, not PS1.
I reversaled the first time because I didn’t know that DSP knew what he was doing. Not saying that as a slight on him, but basically (and Apoc already explained some of this):
If DSP did the incorrect strength roll, I would hit him with the headbutt.
If DSP did the correct strength roll, but didn’t realize the attacks would pass through/didn’t react fast enough, I would get the throw.
Obviously, if I hit him with the headbutt, great. However the situation I want is him being caught off guard and me getting the throw = I win the round. With that kind of risk/reward, that’s why I reversaled the headbutt again (and unfortunately looked stupid when DSP threw me both times).
I know if Boxer tries to shoulder Honda during his charge attack at the last second with fierce punch, he’ll pass thru him. But thru Claw’s roll attack?
Haha I understand what your talking about Apoc on the technical part of that situation it just looks like its not suppose to happen. Vega was in deep sweep position when he did it (Fierce version Claw Roll) and …PASS RIGHT THROUGH! He landed in back of him and was able to get those throws. Like I said it looked like it wasnt suppose to happen.
JMS: I didnt realize we were playing on the DC version. hehe its all good! PS1 version and DC version differ much?
Anyway thanks for the respose guys!
1!
There was a reason EVO became console-only. The presence of available ST cabs invalidates that reason.
As far as a team tournament goes - allowing people to enter themselves multiple times on a team seems pretty silly. If enough people do that you’ve basically just re-created a singles tourney, except it will take longer because instead of first to 2 wins per match it’s first to 3 wins.
I’m not a fan of team tourneys but if you are going to have team tourneys make them real team tourneys.
If you want to be specific, the reason tournaments became console only, is because people don’t play arcade versions of anything, and the number of people that do will only get smaller. The only way to invalidate that reason is to build about 1000 profitable arcades and put some SF games in them. But with that said, there were several arguments as to why ST is special.
there is no real console ST community for the players to migrate to, and we’re still pretty much working from the arcade centric community and pretty much the same players. Since US top players are a rare commodity, i think it makes sense to try to include them if possible.
A ST tourney wouldn’t really be for new players anyway, so there’s less of a reason to make it a open 500 person tourney over 3 days with quals and everything.
There are people/person/cigarbob that are actually willing and able to make this alternate style tournament happen.
I’m actually hoping that HF or AE console will be in evo as well, I think people would play, and it would help keep the ST tourney at a reasonable # of entries.
Well the idea actually worked last year, but IMO it was because people didn’t have time to think about it and scheme around it.
Maybe we can still do something to accomodate, like someone can register 2-3 times, but they have to use different characters. Would people still feel the same about not having a team with that rule?
I’m not sure what this would accomplish other than making a more drawn-out ST tournament. I think that somewhere, in the back of everyone’s mind who favors a team format is the idea that “I’m gonna get messed up by xyz character/player and there’s nothing I can do about it. I hope someone else on my team can beat them.” This feeling creates a much less tense atmosphere–so what if you lost, it’s on your other team members’ shoulders now–and that’s what makes a team format less “real.”
While i think there are things that can be improved, I think we all (myself included) have to realize that there was a fine event last year with all the rules as stated earlier, so maybe we are exaggerating a bit with having a ‘real’ tournament, the one that was run was pretty ‘real’ as is, despite all our theoretical concerns.
Maybe some of the problem with finding teams can be handled by registration, I could create a section where people will know who is interested in the ST team tourney and then people could just match each other, OR a place where the teams themselves can be registered so people will have plenty of time to find a team. My problem with the latter is that people will probably try to change teams and that could be messy. Don’t know if that would help any, that’s probably more of a question to DSP and people that share his concern about people finding teams.
I absolutely did not mean to dump on last year’s event. Any ST is good ST by me. Team tournaments and singles tournaments are very different formats however, and I don’t think that the things I mentioned are just theoretical concerns–team tournaments have a very different atmosphere. If the situation has to be it’s team tournament or nothing, then it is what it is, but team tournament is not a perfect replacement for singles. It’d be like me taking your Count Chocula and giving you Cocoa Pebbles. You’d be like “wtf is this” but you’d still eat it for breakfast. That said, a ST Matchmaking section certainly couldn’t hurt, but I don’t think it’s the real issue.
I think there’s a lot of positive things from a team event that are not present at all in singles too. In the end I can live with them being ‘different’, and I don’t think that singles vs team is the real issue. One is not replacing the other, since there was no real ST singles according to some ST players, and there is currently no means for either evo or cigarbob to run a agreeable singles tournament. If singles is the real issue to someone, then it’s a seperate discussion than this one. But i think that question needs to be answered as well, is there still a desire for evo to continue to provide console ST as opposed to console AE and/or HF?
WRT the team tournament, the only main issue so far has been this same person rule. To use your example, you are propsing to takeaway something that players could do last year, but I don’t think there’s a ton of info yet. The rule did work last year, but OTOH people didn’t have time to plan to abuse it. So I think there’s a few more questions to answer:
How extensive is the problem of finding teams? Are there things that can be done to help people find teams, if so will that solve the problem? If the rule stays, how many people would really put themselves on the same team 2-3 times? If they were made to change characters, would that change anything? etc…
I was under the impression that one might be replacing the other. Regardless, what CigarBob runs on his cabinets is what CigarBob runs on his cabinets. And if Evo drops singles ST then Evo drops singles ST. These decisions should be made independant of one another, and it shouldn’t be CigarBob’s responsibility to run a singles ST tournament.
As far as your concerns, I’m not sure how to answer any of them without giving my personal opinions, so here goes!
sub-issue: Console ST Singles vs. Arcade ST Singles is no issue to me. If people choose to ignore console ST tournaments then that’s their prerogative.
sub-issue: Finding teammates might be a problem if, say, you decide not to talk to/meet anyone. Honestly, it’s incredibly selfish of us to say this when we have a whole site devoted to talking to people. This might be a problem for the Japanese, but I suspect some opportunistic American ST players would drag them over/pay them to be on their team because, uh, they’re Japanese.
main issue: The same person x3 doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of a “team” tournament. However, to clarify, I would not take away this rule. Ultimately, if same person x3 can win the team tournament all by himself, then he deserved it. (Alternatively: If more balanced teams of 3 different individuals were unable to defeat this person x3, then they did not deserve to win. Whine all you want about how it was unfair that one person won the team tournament. Then realize that it only makes your team look worse. Go home and practice.)
As long as 3v3 team remains a side tournament, then I think the same person x3 rule should be allowed. However, something interesting happens if 3v3 team ST were to become a main event. What if same person x3 wins up on the big screen, and spectators and arm-chair captains all over the world cry ‘lame’? If the 3v3 ST tournament becomes a BIG deal, then the opinions of spectators should be taken into account, otherwise I suspect you’d be hearing the same question all year, “what kind of team tournament allows a single person to win?”
To answer your concerns as far as a one man team goes. I will not allow it. I will make it a minimum of 2 men per team with one playing for 2 spots. The person playing two spots will have to use different characters as well. I think this should solve a few probs.
I am curious to see what will happen with EVO ST this year. But even if EVO staff pulls official support for it I will have it on the side via 3v3. Plus tons of casual for ST. If ST is not in tourny play at the time it will have at least 50% of the casual play on the 3rd cabinet be ST.
David Spence, Im gunning for you next year. So far Ive been knocked out of the last two EVO’s by you. I will have my revenge!
Here is another question. Would you all prefer a 2v2 with more teams or a 3v3 with less teams?
Also, that was DC version at NEC, not PS1.