ST Honda

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
1

There’s very little information on E Honda around these parts, and since I’m picking him up now I thought it would be good to start a new thread. I’m a Gief and Vega player finally branching out after years of the same two characters, fyi. I’ll start off with some questions, I guess.

First, is there a quick way to get fierce hundred hand slaps out? I played against someone on LIVE the other day who got them out immediately, just standing there and then fierce slaps. Or was he just using autofire? And is it smart to use strong and fierce slaps as a way to move forward instead of walking?

Also, what are some good ticks into ochio? Is crossup forward splash a good way to start ticks, Zangief style, or should I not really try for that kind of thing?

2

If there’s a shortcut for getting fierce HHS, I would love to know it… Using them for mobility is good idea IMO.

Ochio is crazy good. Negative edge it (while stored at downback) to have blocking Ochios. Whenever someone gets close, store the Ochio. This makes you almost impossible to be ticked. When waking up, do negative Ochios. After Jump-in (yours or theirs), do negative Ochios.

Meaty d.LP, Neg-Ochio loop in the corner can be a bitch. Whiff Sumo Smash into Ochio is sneaky. I see crossup RH, s.LP, Ochio a lot too. Crossup RH, s.MP, walk tiny step Ochio is dizzy combo. Any hit after an Ochio will often dizzy… I see a lot of Sumo Smashes after Connected Ochios.

Bear Hug, hold UF, j.RH can crossup.

Silly trick: After Ochio do quick HP HHS, but stop mashing the moment it comes out… if you hit, you’re in range for immediate stored negative Ochio gain. wee

But don’t take my word for it… All I do is try to get in and Ochio/HHS/Throw. And as for getting in… I suck midscreen. :confused:

I just poke with MPs/s.RH/HP HHS, and try to get a lucky jump-in/SumoSmash.

The real thing to learn IMO is how to get around the damn fireball trap. AGH!

EDIT: I think he knows about the thread Archetype… He posted in it. Also, does the CvS2 shortcut work in ST?! If so, that’s awesome…

3

Yeah I’ve been watching those vids, definitely. And thanks for the quick, helpful replies. More questions!

The super: don’t bother? When I play against characters with a dp it seems near useless. When I try to use it for chip damage, the second hit usually gets beaten. And it doesn’t even chip that well, anyway. And even if it does connect, sometimes the second hit will get dragon punched anyway. And the invincibility frames seem to be in the randomest place possible. When should I bother with this thing, if ever?

To continue with the ochio ticks, is jumping short a decent one? I used it with success when I started with Honda but it’s been getting beaten easily a lot lately. It works with Gief, figured it might with Honda. Maybe it just needs to be timed later?

Against non-fireball characters I’ve been using a pretty stand-off-ish style where I generally only attack to punish mistakes or if something is obvious, haven’t really been pressing. Is that a good way to play? Or should I try to be more in the opponent’s face and go for ochio and slaps more?

4

what short cut?

when playing honda you wanna be pretty agressive. Don’t get in the corner! Test your opponent if they are adept at reversing as well. lets say for fighting ryu and you trip him. It would be pretty stupid to jump on him if he could reversal right? He would smash your face with a dp whenever u went for a cross up. Try to bait out the reversal dp’s. If you see he isn’t that good it might be a good idea to go for the crossup and mix it up from there with some ochios or whatever. And make sure YOU know how to reversal. Its bad for honda if you get your opponent all over you crossing you up. Reversal headbutt is your friend. I think jab headbutt might be best on reversal. Im not sure. Also his charge down move is nice for advancing/mixing up. Keep that charge!!

peace

Sav

5

agressive or turtle style would depend on the matchup a lot of times. Some matches you can sit back while others it might be better to attack all out and get in as much damage as you can.

For the super, IMO it’s only good for taking out predictable fireball throwers since it cuts through in mid-flight. I think NKI mentions that the top japanese hondas seem to land all 4 of the super hits consistently. They must have figured out the magic range or something.

6

Hey… maybe you could ask NKI in his Japan Log Thread…

More Honda players must be pretty good… :slight_smile:

7

I got trouble getting around turtle Guiles. (notably CE Guiles) any tips?

8

I have a couple more questions, too.

When you have someone in the grabby, and you wanna do the slappy, is that escapable? Assuming you don’t mess it up yourself, is it possible to reversal dp (for example) out of it? If so, is it possible to do any reversal with invincibility frames? Or can only some characters escape it and not others?

I played a much better Vega/Balrog recently, and got my ass destroyed. I’d always done well against Vega before by sitting back, waiting for him to come to me, and jab headbutting him. But that didn’t work this time. He kept doing crossup wall dives, which (I think) made me lose my back charge so I couldn’t jab headbutt him out of it. I tried jump strong and the standing fierce chop, and nothing seemed reliable. I thought about purposefully walking myself into the corner so he wouldn’t be able to cross me up, but I couldn’t get there before dying. On the other hand, I’m using a regular XBox controller, so charging is hard in the first place. Maybe I just sucked at headbutts particularly hard today, and that’s why they weren’t coming out?

9

That happened to me once too, maybe it was the same guy we played. I tried getting up there early to meet his dive with a jump fierce or roundhouse, then got into a corner so he couldnt cross me up. Once I got him down, I just got on top of him with HHS and ochios. But the trouble is getting him out of the air.

10

vs. Vega (bullfighter) you want to head into the corner as soon as possible when the match starts for reasons that should be obvious. Turtle, and try not to leave the corner. If you do, head for the other corner.

And grabby into slappy can be reversed, but that move’s only good with Old Honda. New Honda should be getting ochio grabs where Old Honda gets the fierce grabs.

11

HHS after throw can be reversed… by any invincible-type AA, super, etc. SPD can grab you too.

Technically, your opponent gets a free super/whatever everytime you try HHS… They can eat one hit, then reverse through the next (since it doesn’t combo)

archetype I tried the CvS2 shortcut (for getting multiple button press moves) and I couldn’t get it to work.

I did some testing of my own, and I think I figured it out a bit. Now, I only tested for like 10 minutes, so if anyone of this is wrong, someone please call me a scrub and correct me.

To test, I did: Jump straight up (whiff normal) and then time button presses so the last press happens when I land. Results: basically, you need 4 button preses of the same strength to initiate HHS. (might be 5? I think it’s 4)

For LP, you can do it slowly… for HP, you have to be FAST. so it’s like :

LP…LP…LP…LP = LP HHS
MP…MP…MP…MP = MP HHS
HPHPHPHP = HP HHS

I tried alternating buttons (a la CvS2 shortcut) to make crazy fast sequences filled with Punches, and it didn’t do shit. I had to press the one button.

New question : if you execute HHS, and Ochio at the same time, which one takes precedence and comes out? Like, If I do HHS next to opponent while also having Ochio stored… what happens?

12

Getting around fireball traps with honda isn’t too hard. You need to either do short or forward buttflop, or jump straight up and use his floater fierce (f+fierce in the air) and go over the fireball while moving forward.

Hondas worst match has to be Old Ken. It’s still fun to play unless you get frustrated easily. Ryu/Old Ryu are next, followed by Guile, DeeJay, and then everyone else with a fireball.

Hondas best matches are Vega (claw), Bison (psycho), Dhalsim (yes, he has a fireball, but Honda totally shuts down his throw games and trading with limbs is ALWAYS in Honda’s favor) and anyone else who ends up close to Honda after a blocked combo string. He does well against Balrog (boxer) and basically shuts down any and all throw mixups in the game.

Of course the ticks into ochio is your main goal. Ochio is where most of Hondas damage comes from, but don’t discount the hand slap and c.fierce. That two hit fierce is ALOT of damage and ALOT of stun. f+roundhouse is VERY VERY GOOD for footsies and very unexpected.

If you land a midscreen ochio, go for fierce hands. If they’re good at reversaling, walk up and stay outside of throw range, block if they DP, ochio. GGPO.

If you land ochio in the corner and your opponent is in the corner, just c.jab into ochio. Unless they’re godly at reversal DPs this is pretty much the match.

If you get the bearhug and throw them into the corner, you can walk behind them, c.jab -> ochio. They are now back in the corner.

AA with s.fierce, jab headbutt, or far s.roundhouse.

Never do roundhouse buttflop over fireballs. Your large ass will be swept.

crossup d+strong, c.jab, ochio. This is good after a knockdown. On fatter guys do crossup roundhouse.

Headbutt goes over low tiger shots. Honda does good against Sagat/O.Sagat. It’s not for free, but he’s alot better than some people (like Chun).

Your basic goal of the match is to land an ochio, then chip with hands or tick into another ochio. Always have an ochio stored if you’re blocking. You’ll be amazed at the range of the throw, and there IS NO WHIFFED ANIMATION SO HIT PUNCH AFTER BLOCK STRINGS. The worst that happens is you get a double c.fierce. The best is random vacuum ochio.

If you’re playing SF2: Anniversary edition for the PS2, select ST honda while holding start to get his ‘true’ st version with the stored ochio. Otherwise he doesn’t have it. I just found this out and was wondering why I wasn’t getting ochio EVER on people. DC version > SF2:HAE. Arcade Machine > All.

13

Honda rip Guile off head.

Sorry, couldn’t resist.:slight_smile:

14

What kind of precision do you need to have to do this? This doesn’t sound like something to rely on… unless you’re, you know, Japanese or something. This sounds like theory fighter to me.

Besides, the grabby into slappy is a mixup.

15

Well, it’s not theory–the artist formerly known as marvelscrub is right. The only place I’ve seen someone do it…if you have access to the HF Gamest, check out the final match between the Gief and Honda player. In the second round, Gief takes a hit from hands and then spds Honda out of it. Guess you do have to be Japanese.

16

I’m not 100% positive but I’m pretty sure the piano method for lightning legs/hands/elec didn’t get added until A3. I know it 100% does not work in ww-st and i remember testing it in a1/a2 and it didn’t work there. But I do know it works in A3 - I get all crazy with V Blanka in that game with it.

Derek

17

Damn… I never knew I had a nick THIS old… I’m almost as old as Dasrik! But it looks like Omni has us both beat. :slight_smile:

But yeah, if it ain’t a combo, you can always reverse through the next hit… well, I’d like to think so anyhow.

It’s prolly easiest with the Giefster… with all the button mashin’ and stick spinnin’ and everything.

BTW: I CAN DO IT EVERYTIME 100% NO FAIL I SWEAR!!!1

(Theory fighter is fun, because you always win!)

18

Where’s Gief? That always struck me as one of the most lopsided matches in the game.

19

It’s winnable.

grumblegrumbleomnigrumblegrumbleNCR1

20

can someone explain “negative” and “stored” ochios. thanks in advance. :karate:
also…while i’m asking nub questions…are there any other tips for getting hhs out faster.? lp, mp, hp, lp, hp doesn’t seem to work for me…no matter how fast i mash em.