You will lose
Play me in chicago i already said that i would play any Sim for $50 for 10 games if its 5-5 i lose! So all you have to do is win 5 games! Talk is cheap actions speak loader than words! nuff said! :lame:
You will lose
Talk is cheap? Exactly. What have you ever done in a major tourney?
Ask Chris Li and Bob Painter how I do against E.Honda
:eek:
I thought this thread was about counter characters!
Anyways, here are some insights on some stuff:
Nothingness, Honda is supposed to beat everyone in the game except projectile characters. He takes little skill in ST, as ST in general is one big counter character. I don’t use Honda, but I can use him pretty damned well. (Which means he is extremely easy to use) Granted you and I don’t play Honda the same, I used a lot of high low attacks, and you sit there and do a headbutt and do stored Ochiho, but I can guarantee you I can beat the same people you can Honda Vs Sim.
Which comes to the Honda vs SIM Argument. You have played a lot of Honda vs NEW SIM, not OLD SIM. Different throw range, different setups, different normals. You may think you have an easier time, but you won’t. Shirts has played against sitting/standing/rushing Hondas. Your Honda is not known for being one of the best. You are known for just “playing” Honda, whereas Bob Painter and Chris Li (as of late) are known for playing Honda extremely well and doing well in tourneys with them.
Considering Shirts has beaten them both in tourneys with old SIM, It would be safe to say the match is in his favor even though Honda "should " win. He knows how to play against Honda really well because he learned how to play against every character in the game…
Re: You will lose
Alright! Sounds like we have ourselves a bet 
Can’t wait to hear the results
Painter and Li
ahhh no they play a different style against Sim. they dont steam roll and you have to play on the ground they jump around too much for my taste. They have good hondas no arguements there. I just feel mine is better! Old sim has even worse chances than new Sim. What aggressive moves does Sim have… hmm lets see no drills b/c one drill = ochico blocked or not! hmmm next air game about even maybe a slight edge to Sim, Ground game Honda hands hands C.forward. Ummm L.strong vs yogas. Sim has no jump in game since his drills have been rendered impotent b/c i can spash em or head butt em! If i knock you down Once its repeated ochicos and the round is essentially over! As for not beating anyone i Guess Spence is no one than? Who has a more than a respectable New Sim! Wait didn’t he finish higher than Shirts at evolution last year? top 8 wasn’t he? maybe im mistaken. Granted Old sim in my opinion has more advantages in my book but still has no ability to land from throws and no super! BIG disdv. there!
AS to Dream Theater! Actually you haven’t seen my honda lately i play way different now! You’ve been away from the game for to long! And When was hte last ime you beat me? Years ago! The ochico has become a larger part of my game, as well as other things and who says who plays better with honda. I can make claims that i’m the best from now until doomsday but it means nothing, where you place in tourneys means everything, BUT like you said ST is one big counter character! All ST tourney results, are due to bracketing ! I can pretty much set a tourney up so that i can have whoever i want to win win! By setting up certain people who are strong vs others peoples counter characters thus putting them at a disadvantage! For example If i dont want Choi in the finals early i make sure that he faces Cole, Sagat/Ryu/Rog vs Sim! if i want J.Jesse to advance i put him against Seth if i want Apoc to advance to beat out Valle i put them together! these are just examples and are not to say that they would beat these opp. but to just show what i could have in the finals or any given match at any given time!
Don’t sound like anyone gots any… to play me. But hey IF anyone feels brave! Take a shot, it should be an Easy $50 For 10 games! I can only win if i win 6 or more! I’m confident in my skills are you?! C’mon 10 games…For Old Xband sake Nothingness vs MK2 assassin! Let see it with FC and DT to ref with rekkaken to hold the cash!? :lame: Ok had to say that! 
Lastly it would be advantageous for me to lose thus shutting me up and teaching me something and making my game stronger! As long as they pay up i dont care who i play! WOW that was fun!
Nothingness :pNothingness, you are talking out of your ass. You beat me in one tourney where I literally was super exhausted from no sleep and running it for 2 days beforehand, you won, yes, but you still placed lower than me.
AS for when is the last time I beat you? I handed your ass to you at MWC last year with random characters in practice…away from the game too long? I don’t even play it and won the tourney (yeah, sticks, buttons; etc) whatever you want to say about it, but Spence is better than YOU, and I beat Spence. I did not know I was away from the game too long and still won a tourney, wow, you must really be a shitty player then.
It’s not about “bracketing” you lose to tons of people. You are trying to say low strong against Yoga Fire at the end of the screen works? hahahah, you don’t know what you are talking about…Honda is limited, and you have been playing the game for years, and are still about an average player at the game…you act like there are new Honda Tricks. For you to say your Honda is better than Painter’s and Li’s is asinine. SIM DOES NOT JUMP AT HONDA OR DRILL. Good sim beats Honda with three moves, and I will tell you them, stand jab, fast fireball, jump away Jab. You think you are better than SHirts, hahaahahhaha…dude, Spence is good, yes, but you think you are better than Spence, and every tourney y ou enter someone beats you early on…so I dunno.
Again, let me say this, Honda beats every character without a projectile…that is the reason you “think” you are decent at the game. The game is all counter characters. I know this because, well, I counter character all day, just like most people end up doing, but you need to step off on this one Mr. Gould, you are out of your leaegue thinking you are better than me and can beat Shirts. I’ll gladly play you first to 10 for $200 if you think otherwise…
Honda doesn’t beat Dhalsim straight up. He only not loses the matchup on sustained damage trades. If the Sim player can outplay the Honda player, then Sim has enough reach to make Honda work. ST, like most fighting games, is less about attacking and more about attacking safely. It’s easy for a Honda player to make a Sim player think he should attack. It’s a smart Sim player that knows when to sit it out.
The thing is, Jason Wilson is 100% right in what he says. Honda beats non-projectile characters pretty easily on paper. Fighting Honda has ALWAYS been about making Honda flinch before you, so when you get to playing more your success with Honda will depend on stupid things like how you’re feeling that day, because once Honda starts losing, he usually goes on losing.
I’m fairly new to competitive SF. I played Honda v. Sim a lot and what I figured out is what I just told you. Honda only wins on damage trades. Sim is the better character.
Clueless.
Will you play me with Sim? Then you will lose! You will lose! You beat me yes in “Practice” like you said! IDIOT! on broken sticks that couldnt do Dp moves or charge moves! plus i wasn’t even using my main characters! Once i started to beat you back you said “This is a scrub game” and that was a direct quote from you! You notice that whenever you lose its always some lame excuse that goes along with it! Like, i never get any sleep, the sticks suck, or im busy running 10 tournies at once or people keep asking me stupid questions! Get over it!
I just beat Spence in Toronto, for a tourney two weeks ago! Plus he usually does better than I in tournies b/c he has a better all around character than i do. (Head to head i win 6 out of 10) I have to work vs shotos, where as he gets free wins vs them! Unless were talking about Daigo( which we are not) . I also usually get counter charactered in my games by shotos 95 % of the time! So thats where my early exits usually come from. And, more recently, i've been going with characters other than Honda! AS for you! You havent beaten me EVER in a tourney when it counts or with something on the line! do the research ! i beat you quite a few years back in chicago when i lost in the finals to Seth! I raped you 2 years ago in chicago with Honda vs Chun and Guile! With little to no effort! I never said the L. strong beats yoga from across the screen it was meant as the group of moves in general such as being a good ground move in close, with c.forward as well, to stop dhalsims fierce on the ground! But im not an english major like yourself! So maybe i made a grammatical error!
Next my Beef is with A "real" Dhalsim Player, like Shirts, Not a fake one like yourself! I'd like a challenge! So i would much rather play Shirts than yourself! no offense, but he's the main one! B/c again when you lose you will make a lame excuse that well he isn't my main guy or something! Shirts won't make any excuses! If he wins he wins if i win I win! Its a done deal! He is the BEST old SIm on the market and why wouldn't i want the best product out there, I don't want any knockoffs!:lame:
Lastly I have a lot of respect for you Wilson your a great player and have been a decent friend over the past few years, just like many of the other players here that have been mentioned and have posted on this subject! Jesse i've know, and is probably the coolest Cat in town! :cool: Shirts always is in a good mood, and i have utmost respect for his game! ;) Mr C. LI Has got to be one of the coolest dudes out there and has taken his game to a very high level and has never given me any problems. And gotten me using Ochico much more often :D Painter what else can you say, but, he Put Honda on the Map... And would get no respect if it wasn't for Him! but When You (Jwilson) start Spewing $#!+ about stuff you know nothing about, and start dropping names i have to stick to my guns and say what i feel! No big deal. So if Shirts don't want to play i'll play you! But i'll only play one of yas!
Later people!No, Bill you said you were better than me period. Y ou beat Spence once? Wow! Let’s see, you beat me in one tourney, I beat you in two. How well have you placed at any tourney? Really? higher than me? Once I recall, back in 1998…
Here is that YOU WROTE:
And, more recently, i’ve been going with characters other than Honda! AS for you! You havent beaten me EVER in a tourney when it counts or with something on the line! do the research ! i beat you quite a few years back in chicago when i lost in the finals to Seth!
YOU BEAT GEOFF ARNOLD YOU IDIOT. NOT ME. I lost to Wes Trueleson and Henry Cen that tourney with GUILE. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.
I raped you 2 years ago in chicago with Honda vs Chun and Guile!
RAPED ME? I used VEGA and CHUN LI, NOT GUILE. YOU ASKED ME WHERE WAS GUILE. I don’t even remember the matches much, and like I said, everyone wins the lottery, you lost to me in 2000, only other time we played. score was 3-1 you, yet you placed 9th and I got 7th because you lost 2 straight, and I beat two others and Spence and lost to Jesse Howard. Do you honestly think me having 3 hours straight and running the tourney two days previously did not have an effect on me? I was a fucking zombie when I played you, and I almost lost to the guy I played before you from Detroit because I was so fucking tired. You run a major, and you try playing against me who is well rested…see how fun it is.
I said it was a “scrub” game because I was beating YOU with HONDA you moron.
Plain and simple, $200 up to 10, your best character vs my best. Let me tell how you how fucking dumb you are. Weren’t you the one saying, “I was expecting Guile” vs your Honda at MWC? You still placed 9th that tourney, lower than I did, and you lost to someone I BEAT in the tourney, and I beat Spence in the tourney also…you are so off your rocker and out of your league.
AS for MWC last year, they were switch sticks, and I seem to have been able to do all my moves fine, and I won the whole damned tourney regardless, yeah, some of the cabinets were sketchy, and you talking about not being able to do dps? Isn’t Honda a CHARGE character? Geez, live in your fantasy world and ask ANY Super Turbo player where you rank in the grand scheme of things, you might get a nice dose of reality.
ALSO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU POST.
You lost to counters (mentioning Ryu, Ken) so what? Honda counters everyone else pretty much, it’s not like this game si a big secret, You want to bet me if I used Ken on you you would lose? First to 10, 200$ your best vs my best. Since you are better than me at ST, and I placed top 5-7 every year since 1999 (higher than you), this should be simple for you, right?
wrong again
jeezs you should know being in the industry that miss quoting people can get you into big trouble. Again you never beat me in a tourney head to head. I guess i have to spell it out for you! back in 98 i beat wes and geoff and spence, so going on your logic you lost to people i beat and then 2 years ago i wouldve placed higher b/c you screwed up the brackets and played a person in the losers bracket who had no ST exp when i was supposed to play them…it was Combofiend if i recall! you lost to me in that tourney…as for it being guile your righ it was vega we have it on tape but the first match wasnt taped i couldnt remeber if it was guile or vega. Play Sim or shut up this discussiion is supposed to be about Sim vs honda not wilsons best characters.
You a fool
hk master think we should all get long, 
the drama… If it goes down you should capture it.
Back to the thread.
I’ve always heard Cammy owns Hawk 99%. Basically low forward everything, and cannon spike when he gets too close for comfort. I don’t think hawk can hit her after the spike. Is that all ther is too it?
That’s about right. Cammy can win this fight with the forward button only if she wants to.
Low forward will beat all of Hawk’s jump ins except for fierce, and just about all of his ground pokes. Once you get bored of hitting him with forward, you can switch to doing forward cannon spikes, which he can’t punished when they’re blocked.
If you get him in the corner, you can do forward cannon spike: walk forward a step. If he does nothing, do another one. If he does something…do another one.
You could use roundhouse cannon spikes instead, but that would violate our mandate of using one button.
Now if T.Hawk manages to get a knockdown or a piledriver off, it gets a bit tougher, as you’ll actually have to try and reversal cannon spike out of his ticks. He can cross Cammy up pretty well, so you want to avoid that.
If you want to use two buttons, you can try using strong to counter jump ins early, and switch between strong and forward on the ground, since whatever pokes do trade with forward will lose to strong.
Yeah well I play Bison blah, blah, mk, mk, blah blah, I win!
So what are the counters for every character in ST, including Old Characters?
Ryu - ?
O. Ryu - ?
Ken - ?
O. Ken - ?
Akuma - none 
Chun Li - ?
O. Chun Li - ?
Dhalsim - ?
O. Dhalsim - ?
Zangief - ?
O. Zangief - ?
Blanka - ?
O. Blanka - ?
E. Honda - O. Ryu, O. Ken, …
O. E. Honda - O. Ryu, O. Ken, …
Guile - Vega?, …
O. Guile - Vega?, …
Cammy - ?
O. Cammy - ?
Dee Jay - ?
O. Dee Jay - ?
Fei Long - ?
O. Fei Long - ?
T. Hawk - Cammy, O. Cammy, …
O. T. Hawk - Cammy, O. Cammy, …
Balrog (boxer) - ?
O. Balrog - ?
Vega (claw) - ?
O. Vega (claw) - ?
Sagat - ?
O. Sagat - ?
Bison - ?
O. Bison - ?
I’d like to get a definitive list going, so please post your counter matches, and I’ll update this post with all of your input.
The only thing Sagat haS that is a counter is Dhalsim. Bison beats up cammy. And uhm, Vega loses to like Bison pretty bad…
Thanks Iceman,
Can you post up what tactics you’d use with each character to dominate the other? I think that it would be helpful in creating our counter character list.
This sounds like a tier chart, just less useful… i would guess that a 7-3 match or higher is a straight counter.
I’m all for this list being useful. I like the idea of just putting down the straight counters. Is there a defining list out there already? If not, lets try to make one here. I’ll try to get DreamTR in here for his input.
TEAR
this has probably been mentioned long before in this thread but guile gets d-d-d-d-dominated by vega claw it’s just not fair people… just not fair especially my guile which sucks big hob nob