(SSF4:X) SF4 full conversion mod thread. v0.39 Alpha now available! [04/14/2014] (19 chars!)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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Always neat to play the CPU, even without modifying some of the CPU move weights so that it is smarter at using new moves and such it sometimes still results in seeing changes made used in ways you hadn’t thought of, or didn’t really fully consider.

Playing vs THawk had the thrust peak - EX DP combo which I hadn’t even thought of.

Playing vs Akuma had him utilize his Soul Sacrifice in a surprisingly smart way (especially for the CPU). I had considered 5 bar combos, and being able to EX without any meter. However what the CPU ended up doing (and it was the first round it won in 20 matches doing this lol.) was it had super stocked and it used the Soul Sacrifice to be able to do EX moves without losing the threat of super. Anyone who has played vs CPU Akuma knows that it WILL land demons on you. Constantly. Ultra or Super doesn’t matter, it makes the demon seem like a good idea all the time (though about 1/5th of the time it does the demon in response to you hitting a button but does it too EARLY and results in you being able to jump back and then punish the super/ultra because the screen freeze ate your inputs.)

Still, being able to keep the threat of a 0F 380 damage command throw while also being able to use EX Fireballs and EX SRK is really cool to fight against. You know when the threat is available so it’s not like you’re getting randomed. And it ain’t free (65 health is ~7.5% of Akuma’s max). But having to worry about: Teleport, 0F command throw, 3F startup 18F invincible DP on his wakeup makes the 65health sort of an investment. “I’ll lose some health now to make it less likely to lose MORE health later.”

Also working on Sagat now.

Here are a couple of the things I’ve already done and certainly will be keeping though perhaps tweaking:

Walk speed increased to 0.028 forward 0.024 backward (Was 0.024 forward 0.02 backward.)
All Tiger Uppers are airborne 1F sooner and have more invincibility (varied amounts based on strength)
crHP is back baby! ATM it is 8F startup 6F active 13F recovery. Hurtbox on arm reduced in width a bit. Damage increased to 120.
Can kara cancel F+LK into F+HP (high lows!) during the startup frames. F+HP now super cancelable on hit/block.
B+MP command normal version of close MP
Far HK 2nd hit can not hit crouching (You’re welcome Zangief)

That’s it so far.

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Sagat is already done lol. By far the quickest character change. This is because honestly, Sagat doesn’t leave a lot of creative room for expanding his design. He is very well designed already and also his gameplan is effective, unique, and straightforward. However while his changes aren’t as big/crazy as some characters they ARE quite noticeable to anyone who plays Sagat regularly.

Walk speed increased to 0.028 forward 0.024 backward
Backdash recovers 1F faster and travels slightly farther
Throw range increased a small amount.

close/far LP damage reduced from 40 to 35 blockstun increased by 1F
close MP blockstun increased by 2F
close HP startup reduced from 10F to 9F damage increased from 110 to 120.
close/far LK now have the same frame data (4F startup 1*3 active 9F recovery). Now can be super canceled on second hit. Blockstun on both hits increased by 1F
close/far HK can no longer hit crouching opponents on the 2nd hit.

farMP startup reduced from 10F to 8F recovery increased by 1F. Blockstun increased by 1F
farHP startup reduced from 10F to 9F active frames increased from 3F to 4F
Far MK frame data drastically modified. Previously 9/3/11 (startup/active/recovery) now 9/6/12. It is now much more susceptible to focus attacks but it should work a lot better for a mid range poke that goes over low attacks.

crouching HP frame data is now 8/6/13 (previously 8/3/15) hurtbox on arm reduced in width. Damage increased to 120
crouching LK damage increased to 35
crouching MK hitbox moved forward to give it more reach. Damage increased from 65 to 70
crouching HK damage increased from 100 dmg 100stun to 110 damage 150stun. Blockstun reduced by 3F

Forward / Neutral jump LK damage increased from 50 to 55

Now can perform a variation of close MP with Back+MP. This does 75 damage vs grounded and 90 damage vs airborne. It cannot be special or super canceled.
F+LK now can be kara canceled to F+HP overhead
F+HP is now super cancelable on hit/block.

High Tiger shot damage increased from 65 to 70
Low tiger shot damage increased from 60 to 65
EX Low tiger shot recovery reduced by 1F

LP Tiger Upper damage reduced from 120 to 110 on early frames. Stun increased from 100 to 150 on later frames. Hitbox width increased by 5% on early frames. now airborne 1F sooner. invincibility increased by 1F
MP Tiger Upper damage on later frames increased from 140 to 150. Stun on early frames reduced from 200 to 150. Stun increased from 100 to 150 on later frames. Hitbox width increased by 5% on early frames. now airborne 1F sooner. invincibility increased by 2F
HP Tiger Upper damage increased on early frames from 120 to 130. Stun reduced on early frames from 200 to 100. Damage on later frames increased from 160 to 170. Stun increased from 100 to 150 on later frames. Hitbox width increased by 5% on early frames. now airborne 1F sooner. invincibility increased by 3F
EX TU now has 1 Juggle Potential on the first hit allowing for new combos and higher damage versions of previous combos.

Angry Charge TU damage/ invincibility also increased

Tiger Knee damage distribution altered. All versions got -10 on first hit +10 on second hit. Now +5F on counterhit FADC instead of -1F
EX Tiger Knee blockstun reduced by 1F
All TKs now force standing on first hit.

Super damage increased from 350 to 365 when full hits are landed
U1 now gets all hits in the corner and mid screen. Damage reduced to 457 (HP TU - FADC - FHK - U1 = 477) (HP TU - LK Super - U1 = 588 dmg and keeps corner!)
U2 now gets all hits on air hit or on TU fadc F+HK U2. Damage reduced to 360 (HP TU - FADC - FHK - U2 = 480!)

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Can’t wait until you get around to a character I actually play. >_>

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Thought you played THawk >.>

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Eh, a bit. My real mains are both flavors of Ryu and Mak tho.

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Working on Makoto now. One of those characters where small changes can have big results while big changes can have small results. Also a character IMO heavily improved by some system changes. Meter gain on medium/heavy normals when whiffed, improved throws, and tightening up some of the input leniency I think are all very helpful to her.

Also, you guys know I didn’t REMOVE the rest of the cast right? Nothing stopping you from trying to play this mod against non-modded characters or vice versa.

I’m a lil sad no one has posted a video of them playing vs a friend or even just something they found in training mode they thought was cool in the 3 months I’ve been doing this :frowning:

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You should get this posted on SRK front page or eventhubs.

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Makoto might be delayed a smidge. I ran into a snag when trying to modify her super. It doesn’t seem to want to let me make moves that ONLY run while in her super stance.

I had been trying to make it so that Makoto’s super caused her special moves to all function like her EX Moves (except Fukiage which would always function like LP Fukiage so she could combo after a hayate.) but I’ve been unable to get it to only do it while in super.

Very annoying.

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Whoa super saiyan makoto is an awesome idea. Wildly broken, but cool.

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It’s all about how it’s done. I wouldn’t leave it at 13second duration (probably ~6-7s) and she wouldn’t gain the damage values of her EX moves. Just their frame data / properties. Also that is an intentionally double edged sword as you’d no longer be able to use her axe kick for mobility or starting combos as the EX version halts her moved and causes a knockdown even on grounded opponents.

It MAY be too good, but that is what testing is for. The thing though is that meter is huge for Makoto and right now her super is simply a bad choice IMO due to a few factors:

  1. She loses the majority of her combos. Even with the 25% damage boost her combos are doing less damage and less stun than she’d be getting without using super and instead doing EX.
  2. She cannot build meter during her Super (obviously). This is doubly bad thanks to the 13second duration. Since unlike with Geneijin or Seiei Enbu (or even FSE in some respects.) She can’t keep you locked down in a combo or blockstun for the entire duration of the super (as she gains no other properties on her moves besides damage.) this results in long bouts of vulnerability.
  3. She loses access to her main armor breaker (EX Hayate) and all of her wake up options other than block/backdash should she get knocked down (EX Karakusa/EX Oroshi/IA EX Tsurugi)
  4. She loses her main corner carry tools (where she is the strongest)

She loses a lot of good stuff for comparatively little. It’s actually a great example of how usually consistency/versatility usually trumps raw damage when you compare her super to other install type moves. The best thing she gains (which is an understandable concern) is Super to Ultra 1 combo which does exceptional amounts of damage. However her U1 will be nerfed in SSF4X (down to 420 to be specific) which means that her Super - U1 will only do ~530 damage instead of over 600 like it does in AE2012.

I can see it being too good though. Of course atm I’m not sure if I’ll even be able to implement it at all since her Super seems to be heavily tied to the executable instead of her actual character file and I’m not going to (and don’t really know how to do properly) modify the .exe file.

If I can’t do what I originally wanted to do, I may end up instead having her super grant her ~80-100 white health instead.

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New version is out! Adds Ryu and Sagat

Ryu’s changes are somewhat boring TBH but he is kind of a boring character lol!

One of the biggest snags I had was coming up with changes for him that didn’t tread on Ken/Akuma/Evil Ryu/Oni’s toes. I really feel the number of shotos in the game limits their ability to maintain a unique and interesting identity. I had considered giving Ryu back his Alpha series hop kick but Evil Ryu has something similar. I didn’t want to go HDR route with a fake fireball.

Ultimately the “new” move for Ryu was just finishing some of the existing work that was done by Capcom. Initially his EX fireball was going to be the red fireball from SF2/Alpha but eventually they decided to go with making it his EX as such there was 2 left over copys of his EX Fireball (Red Fireball in his files). Since I didn’t want to tread on Evil Ryu/Akuma territory I decided to just make it so that Ryu can change the speed of his EX Fireball in a similar fashion to his regular ones. LP+MP = Slower than normal. MP+HP = same speed as current EX. LP+HP = faster than normal. Other than that it is the exact same.

Backwards walk speed was increased from 0.03 to 0.035
Forward throw damage increased from 130/140 to 145/140
Backwards throw damage increased from 130/120 to 140/140

All of his close normals got hurtboxes added based on Akuma/Evil Ryu’s hurtboxes for similar moves.
His F+HP now resembles his ST incarnation abit more in physics. Now it is a quick lunge forward then stopping rather than a slow constant movement. 1F was removed from the 2nd hit to make it less likely to get both hits from max range but the total range was increased and it does more damage now. (Note: the 1F removed was from the middle So now it is 2(1)1 rather than 2*2 for active frames. This isn’t that big a deal ultimately.)
F+MP got a damage boost and if the 2nd hit is a counterhit it goes up even further (E.G. if you broke armor with it.)

sweep can now be FADC’d on block/hit.

FJ MP can now be canceled to Tatsu/ex tatsu. Damage on FJ Mp was reduced from 5030 to 4030.
Air tatsus now have 1 JP on the 2nd hit allowing you to get two hits with proper spacing/timing. Damage on all air tatsus was lowered by 10 to compensate as you can get a lot more damage out of them potentially now.
EX Tatsu more likely to get full hits now (not 100% though, especially when canceled from FJ MP, if the opponent is above you when you cancel you’ll likely only get 1-3 hits.)

Hadoken chip damage increased from 15 to 18
Lots of normals got damage tweaks for anti airing (buffs) (far LK/HK/HP crHP close HP)
crMK +1 blockstun
NJ LP startup reduced from 10F to 6F

LP SRK now has zero invincibility. Blockstun reduced by 1F
MP SRK blockstun reduced by 1F
HP SRK invincibility increased from 1-4F to 1-6F. Damage on later frames increased from 60 to 90 when hitting an airborne opponent.
EX SRK blockstun reduced by 1F

U1 damage reduced to 341 when getting full hits. However juggle potential increased by 1 allowing you to get full hits on airborne opponents in more situations (such as after an EX fireball in the corner)
U2 damage reduced from 503 to 443 when getting full animation. Now first hit has juggle potential. SRK - FADC - U2 will get the full animation. As will EX Tatsu - U2 in the corner or FJ MP - U2 mid screen works (even if you get both hits) or Air Tatsu - U2 in the corner. Non-cinematic version damage increased slightly.

I’ll probably revisit Ryu at a later point with some bigger changes. ATM his stuff is good (imo) but lackluster. He is already so solid all around but also so… plain. It’s hard to really figure out good ways to buff him.

I considered giving him back his crHK - fireball trap but if I do that one I think I’d have to heavily consider increasing the startup on sweep up to 6F.

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He’s bland, I agree. Buff his fireball game more imo.

Dunno, maybe untechable knockdown on ex fireball or on fireball air hit. Let him charge fireball (lol). Increase blockstun/pushback. Fix the hitbox (bigger). Armor breaker fireball lolol.

He definetly doesn’t need more damage.

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EX Fireball already has free juggle on counterhit allowing combo to sweep. Plus, even with the reduced damage the damage on U1, the damage for EX FB - U1 is actually higher now thanks to the increased JP getting more hits. In AE2012 EX FB - U1 does 364. In SSF4X it does 377.

Blockstun on the FB is pretty good already as long as you don’t throw it point blank you’re solid. After a certain number of frames Ryu gains more block advantage than Cody does thanks to having more actual blockstun + way more active frames. Plus, crMK got +1F blockstun increasing ranges it is a true block string to fireball.

charge fireball again, you run into the issue of treading on the toes of Gouken, Oni, and Sakura. I want to avoid that.

Hitbox size is actually pretty big on startup (0.6x0.2) and after that it drops to 0.05x0.2 which ties him with most of the cast. If you look at hitboxes for fireballs in previous SF games its actually on par with those. It might be something I adjust in the future. I wouldn’t go larger than like 0.075 or 0.08 though on width so that players can still neutral jump it reliably.

Really, in regards to his FB, buffing the chip, making it build more meter on whiff (since meter on block was reduced for all moves), and increasing the damage of his anti airs is all it will take to make his zoning game stronger. Plus the ability to vary his EX FB movement speeds makes them a little harder to deal with.

His FB chip going from 15 to 18 is a 20% increase. (15*1.2 = 18) that can’t be overlooked. That’ll make it so you can’t block fireballs for nearly as long. While this wont EVER happen, the break down is this: to chip a character with 1000health to death with the original chip damage would take 67 fireballs. With the new chip it’ll take 56. With Ryu’s fireball at 45F total that is a reduction of 8.25 seconds (495f)

Lastly, a not-so-minor thing is the system buffs: No more counterhit crumples buffs his fireball game a little, as does the altered inputs making it so that you can do crMK - QCF-UF - punch and always get a FB allows Ryu to be more mobile and less hesitant with his crMK - fireballs.

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the last problem with tanden renki is that anyone with half a brain will just run away from her for it’s entire duration. it’s not hard, even with slow characters to stall for that long.
in 3s it granted an /enormous/ damage boost, which was at least cool if not particularly useful. try it out in 3s if you haven’t seen it lately.

as for getting free ex, yeah that’s cool. sort of. anyone that can reliably punish ex hayate / oroshi will just wait for it and murder you (looking at cody). you have to land at least 2 BIG hits to make it worthwhile over just saving for the ex moves in the first place.
unfortunately i don’t have a good solution to that super. it wasn’t a good idea in 3s, and it’s not really a great idea in sf4 where it’s so easy for most characters to halt her momentum if they know she has to go in sometime in the next 10 seconds.

i don’t know. maybe you can turn her into 3s makoto for 10 seconds. 11f dash, +2 on ex hayate, giant range on karakusa, 1+1f ultra 1 and the ability to link after every hayate. haha.

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can you make the characters any smaller??

faster sf4 sounds good :tup:

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Nope, I can’t alter the size of characters just the moves.

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One thing you have to remember about Makoto is how incredibly different she is in 3S vs SF4 both in terms of better and worse. As well as the loss of universal mechanics

11F dash (actually 12F) was only if you canceled the recovery with an attack / jump. Her normals like everyone had a ton more active frames but also were generally slower to startup, had more pushback, and were harder or impossible to combo from. For example, she couldn’t link sMP into itself and it was 8F startup instead of 5F like in SF4. She couldn’t link sLP - sMP either. Her axe kicks increased her jump time instead of reducing it which makes them harder to use for pressure but easier to use for getting in. Plus they had WAY less frame advantage on hit. (The best she could get was like +4 or +5F on hit. Compared to SF4 where she is around +9 on hit. Her Fukiages were harder to use and had less range since they all stayed in place except for EX. Her regular hayates were MUCH more unsafe on block, only her EX was safe (-12F on block for regular hayate compared to -8F for lp hayate and -6F for hp hayate on block in sf4)

Because in earlier SF games there was rarely a difference in hit/blockstun more than 1-2F on most normals she had a lot of normal attacks that were pretty negative on hit. Like crLK (-3F) F+LK (-5F) those two for example are now +3F on hit and -1F on hit respectively.

Her tanden renki in 3S added like 70% damage but it also removed the ability to block at all AND she was limited to 2 EX moves since it was only 1 bar.

Overall they are sooooo different it’s hard to compare them, they are almost two completely different characters just with the same looking moves.

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oh i know. i played her in 3s as well. her offense revolves around a very different kind of mixup (post-hayate / 100% stun). i just think it’d be fun to link ultra after everything (s.mp / c.mk / all hayates).

tanden renki actually wasn’t a global % increase, it was different per move. still garbage, but at least you could use it’s invincibility on startup to avoid stuff and punish hard.

there’s also a video floating around that shows her 1KHOing ibuki in 3s - 3 taunts + tanden renki + airborne hit of fuki -> jump HK did 100%.

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Don’t worry, just cause there hasn’t been an update in a while doesn’t mean this is dead. Just taking a short break. Started working on Bison.

Couple of highlights:
His jump is now 1F faster [This may or may not stay based on feedback. I understand it screws up safe jumps. The benefit is that it makes him better in neutral, especially vs zoners.]
Backwards walk speed increased
Far MP got the Ultra treatment (6F startup + special cancelable)
FJ MP and Hell attack got hitbox buffs. In addition the damage was altered (FJ MP went down from 50 to 45 while hell attack went up from 30 to 50 this is to encourage use of the TC instead of just going for the 1 hit free juggle.)
Psycho crushers can juggle after hell attack
Currently altering damage distributions on his scissor kicks (still deciding how exactly if I want to approach the differences between L/M/H)

Some bigger stuff:
U2 in the current version has a 18F startup instead of 22F. It is still a charge move not a motion but the charge time was reduced from 55F to 40F
However! The stick control was slightly reduced (If you are in one corner and Ryu is in the other corner the ultra will just barely miss. Though any close than that and you can hit him.)
The damage is getting reduced from 450 to ~420ish.

EX Psychocrusher now has a projectile hitbox that appears around the position of Bison’s hands. This hitbox CANNOT hit opponents. However what it does is cancel out a fireball. Think of Zangief’s EX GH or just think of M.Bison himself as a fireball. It’s able to absorb 2 hits. However each hit you absorb will also reduce the number of hits for the EX PC. So if you absorb an EX Fireball the rest of the psychocrusher will pass harmlessly through an opponent. This is intentional. I feel this gives M. Bison a decent tool for dealing with standard zoning without making him projectile invincible. He still has to respect things like ultra fireballs, 3 hit fireballs, and supers. In addition he’ll still have a fair bit of trouble with the guile mu. However he’ll have an option to deal with a regular SB and at the very least even if EX PC can’t hit after it absorbs 2 fireballs it still grants positioning for Bison.

Bison can turn around if he switches sides during devils reverse. However he can only turn around before the active frames start. (Might tweak this more.) so he can land it as a crossup but he can’t make it a crossup at the last moment like Vega’s claw dive.

Headstomp now has an intentionally gimmicky feint. Any time after ~10F leaving the ground but before the headstomp actually occurs Bison can cancel his leap into a teleport. What this does is instantly put Bison back on the ground and then teleports him forward/backward based on your input. This doesn’t work with EX Headstomp though only regular HS. It’s an intentionally gimmicky option that I just thought fit Bison’s slippery nature and over confidence as it almost seems like a taunt. I’m sure however there will be SOME very situational uses for this (Headstomp - teleport behind opponent just at last moment when they go for an anti air)

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Request for anyone who follows this project: PLEASE POST ANY BUGS/WEIRDNESS YOU KNOW OF THAT EXIST IN AE2012

Things like:
Cammy’s lights having screwed up chain cancel frames
Deejay’s different hurtboxes on chained normals
Dudley’s pushback issues
Cody’s numerous problems
Dan’s U1 not breaking armor and MP Gadoken not breaking Counters
Sagat’s U1 corner popout
Fei getting 2hits of CW on some characters and 3hits on others
Any normals that have a counterhit state that exists during the active frames (For example: Cody’s far LP is active on 3F but is considered counterhitable until 4F)

Stuff like that would be very helpful as I will try to fix any/all that I am able to. I don’t know every bug / issue that exists and while I do search through the characters extensively there may be things I miss.