19461

A. ) guy who laughs at numbers buktooth comes up with, doesn’t bother to say anything until emanuel says this is pretty much it, and then asks who buktooth is
vs
B. ) buktooth

B
Google buktooth and get a clue

19462

Most matchup threads are from 2009 and the contributions are 99% brandnew players “I have a problem with Guile, Sonic Boom OP. Pls help it’s cheap”. I can’t believe that an entire subforum managed to miss the only truly active thread in the entire SF4 section, had not a single guy seeing this before and getting the flax idea to write “Hey there’s a community tier list getting created, let’s join the cause!” and now magically found it the day it’s finished.
For single guys who don’t step out of their charcters subforum yes, but an entire one, and *it just so happens *that someone steps in here once it’s done? That’s … unlikely.

Why didn’t this soulsynapse guy tell you earlier this was getting created (who now strangely has some input on her matchups in your thread, but never posted a single note in here), why didn’t eltrouble say anything (I <know> he’s not limited to the Ibuki forums) or anyone really (I’m fairly sure Mingo didn’t miss this for an entire year)?
That’s not our fault.

19463

Well honestly, reading the few answers I got here, I just remembered why I was not posting on other parts than the Ibuki threads.

Anyway, as I said this is a great project and a great effort from you guys and if I knew about it earlier I’d have been glad to help. Anyway if you need any more input I’d be glad to give you any information you need may it be here or on the Ibuki threads.

Otherwise as I said I started playing with AE, have been extremely active here, and I have never heard of Buktooth (ie I’ve never seen him on any stream/any forum post). Maybe I just miss the actual events he attends (note: I’m not offensive nor rude, just saying what I think. He’s probably good indeed)

Just as a bottom note, and this is my personal opinion, but I believe that if someone wants to create a complete and accurate tier list, at some point he has to go ask players because not all of them will come

Anyway. If you need more insight on Ibuki’s matchups feel free. Otherwise, I won’t just argue and debate over those figures as I think it’s a loss of time and I’m better off actually training =)

19464

If you feel a matchup is wrong, make an argument. Explain how the match plays out, how that leads to the score you support. It’s as simple as that.

19465

Yes, and that’s why Emanuel sought top players when there wasn’t any good information available on x character.

ie buktooth.

Just because you haven’t heard of him doesn’t mean he isn’t a level above most of the players here (and if this level of talk made you sad, you should probably stay off the internet for your own safety. This thread is about debating, expect some hostility.)

19466

Pretty sure I saw another typical Cammy player last page…Is it safe now?..

Good shit EB. Tier list looks fineeeeeeee

The tier list was created by us. You have to actually come in and participate, We’re not coming knocking at your Sub-Forum to ask, This thread is for Tier list discussion, not she Sub-Threads. IF you disagree, make an argument, Otherwise go off and train or whatever you do.

19467

Looks like things came out pretty well. Think I was pretty harsh on this project in the past, but I probably shouldn’t have been. Not perfect, but no tier list ever will be. Good shit overall, Emanuel.

I agree. Can’t pretend like I’m super versed in this match but while I can maybe see Makoto having some kind of advantage here, I’m really skeptical that it’s 7-3 for Makoto.

So what’s Hakan’s answer to her tc1? Seems to blow up his focus pressure pretty well.

Fukiage works if Dan’s pressuring her wakeup with dankus but the only thing it beats is dankus so it’s really risky to throw out. It’s not like a Ryu DP that’ll beat everything but block. If he does anything else she gets owned. And even if it hits, it’ll just trade, and she doesn’t get the conversion that she would usually get from a trade fukiage. Crouch teching with cr.mk or just wakeup ex overhead are better options against dankus.

I’m not arguing that it’s in Dan’s favor though. 5/5 imo. Dan’s really good at pressuring Makoto, but lots of characters are, and he doesn’t do well enough in other areas of the match for it to be 6/4 based soley on his pressure game.

19468

Will do for sure, if the tier list is not closed and definitive I’ll be glad to add my participation =)

That’s a good idea anyway, I think I’ll post my personal thoughts on matchups in the Ibuki thread and link it here and see what my fellow Ibuki players and other players think about it! Will do something as soon as I get some time!

19469

Overall I think the tier list looks pretty fine.I’m proud to have contributed in what meager ways I could. If there remains any questions about Makoto or Ryu I’d be glad to answer 'em as best I can.

19470

heh…if people are starting to come out and say they don’t agree with some matchups when we are about to be “finished” I don’t want to imagine what it will be when it will be posted on the front page of SRK and Eventhubs…

19471

Even the most perfect of perfect tier lists, compiled by FGC Jesus himself, is gonna be disagreed upon by some. People aren’t going to all of a sudden stop posting in this thread.

I nominate Ultradavid for FGC Jesus btw. He looks like he’d look good with a beard and long hair.

19472

I really sorry and I dont expect the tier list to change, but I really must argue certain matchups regarding Guy.

Guy / Makoto is absolutely not 6/4, in any capacity:

Guy is a rushdown machine once he gets in, and makoto cant do a damn thing about it. The reason Guy wins this is because he plays better upclose vs Makoto than Makoto plays upclose vs Guy. Makoto’s poor wakeup game is easily option selected > combo to ultra, or at the very least, puts makoto in a bad mixup position. I really need to hear someone’s arguments why Makoto supposedly wins this matchup 6/4, because I refuse to believe this.

Guy / Balrog - 6-4 Balrogs favor.

I cant really agree with this either…if yall need any reason why, simply watch WNF, Mark vs Keno.

Guy / Blanka - 6/4 - Guy’s favor

I personally feel that this matchup is 5/5 even due to Blanka’s better pokes / AA’s, but this is just my opinion. Also, EX Upball now knockdown on hit, which takes away Guy’s ability to punish on hit.

Guy / Juri - 5.5 / 4.5 - Guy’s Favor

I also personally feel that this matchup is 5/5, possibly even 5.5 / 4.5 in Juri’s favor. She has too many options to plain and simple keep Guy out. Hell, even if he tries to use EX run to get in, she has options to stop it. That being said, if Guy does manage to get a knockdown on Juri, the matchup quickly turns in Guy’s favor. jumpin EX Izuna beats all of Juri’s options sans counter / U2, and it leaves counter easily punishable.

Guy / Elf - 5.5 - Guy’s favor

I think this should be 5/5 even, but thats just my opinion. Guy’s wakeup is pretty weak aside from EX tatsu which can be safejumped. Guy can blow up Fuerte’s wakeup get out options by OS’ing a hozanto, preferably EX (although all versions breaks armor)

Guy / Gouken - 5.5 - 4.5 Goukens Favor

This matchup is definitely not in Goukens favor…at the very absolute least, its an even matchup, and thats being generous. Again, I refer you to WNF, Veloc1raptor vs Mark. Bushin flp throw > Gouken. That, and Guy has a ton of options in, its only a matter of time./

Guy vs Hakan - 6/4 - Guy’s Favor

I think it should be 5/5 simply because once Hakan gets U2, it shuts down all of Guy’s aerial options, and we all know Guy kinda thrives on being in the air. If Guy is just doing run xx stop pressure, Hakan can simply down-back everything. All he has to worry about is the throw. Guy isnt going to cancel into anything that puts him in the air when Hakan has u2, its too much of a liability.

Again, these are just my opinions, take them or leave them. If yall would like any more comments regarding said matchups, id be happy to elaborate / discuss more.

19473

I really wonder what kept all these people from contributing earlier

19474

I dont really pay super close attention to the Tier discussion forums. I mostly come in here to see what everyone is saying when im done researching whatever character / when im not in the lab or practicing.

19475

They want to get in that contributor column so they get some epeen.

One thing I’d like to see on the tier list is the +/- value for a character relative to the cast. I mean it just looks nice you know?

19476

I want my name to get taken out so the numbers gain some credibility :sweat:

19477

Oh it’ll be delicious to see how Eventscrubs reacts for sure lol

19478

Eventhubs probably wont post it because we used .5s

We should however consider making a version without .5s I bet some of the ranks would change based on that

19479

Thanks to Emanuelb and everyone who contributed. Sorry I was only in and out of this thread at times so I couldn’t answer as much as I would have liked to.

Only if your Chun player wants to move backwards. She actually doesn’t have much of a reason why she’d want to. I can understand UltraDavid’s 6.5/3.5 here although personally I’d probably leave it at 6/4.

19480

Ultradavid was talking about this thread last night on WNF bros.

Or yeah, it’s 'cause they want to be in the cool kids club.