I would like to take my time and thank the people who make truly terrible posts for banding together. It feels like I’m never missing anything since you guys generally can’t hold a conversation with anyone else or post anything worthwhile. :tup:
Now Wiz just needs to get this function working on the black skin so I can choose when to view those posts for laughs.
Spoiler
basically ignore the last post with these number changes
(some of these changes may have been applied already, I forgot to check.)
Gouki/Seth: 5-5 (+0.5)
Once Seth has Ultra 1 and two bars, Gouki can lose the match on any hit confirms near the corner. This leads to an unblockable set up that is very difficult to get out of: teleport will get grabbed by U1, DPs will whiff (punishable), Super will whiff (punishable), Ultra 1 will whiff (punishable), and getting hit will result in a guaranteed stun (which is likely going to happen.) Gouki does very well on the ground, but Tanden Engine makes this approach very risky: cst.MP, cst.HP will land on any connected Engines. The fst.HK frame change tends to work in Seth’s favor; for whatever reason, Gouki has to be very on point with the spacing to use DP as a frame trap or he will not hit Seth with all hits or even whiff entirely. So Seth can :kind of: get away with pressing buttons and shit now. Air fireballs are more or less neutralized when Seth has any meter. His fst.MP and fst.MK do a very decent job at keeping Gouki from trying to bait DPs with his counter zoning strategies, and cst.HP will stop Gouki from harassing Seth’s otherwise vulnerable “bald spot.” I would say Gouki still has a very small advantage, but the match up becomes entirely momentum based after someone lands a hit. Seth just outdoes Gouki in this department enough to read as a 5-5.
Boxer/Seth: (no change)
No real change, though I honestly think Boxer/Gouki should be 6.5 too. Gouki basically wins when Boxer gets knocked down, but can have a difficult time scoring the knockdown. Seth basically wins…period (lol), but he can try to guess his way out (unlike vs. Gouki) and can kill Seth slightly faster than he can kill Gouki.
Viper/Seth: 5.5-4.5 (+0.5)
Well, this match up is still incredibly annoying to play because of Viper’s damage/stun output. That being said, mid-screen unblockable on Viper from SPD helps a lot. Viper players like to press buttons as it is, but this basically forces her to. That works out pretty well for Seth oddly enough, because he doesn’t struggle much with OSing her (practically not at all once he has meter.) Viper player is also forced to be conservative with seismo feints because of fst.HP, and Seth is able to do a reasonable job of knocking her out of the air if she tries to approach from it. She’s one of the characters cst.MP, cst.HP works on. Add the nerfs she got, and it’s a bit better than before.
Ibuki/Seth: 5.5-4.5 (+0.5)
Pretty much “whoever gets knocked down, loses.” Seth has the edge at the start of the match, but Ibuki takes it once she has a bar. So new corner unblockables + SPD set ups that are hard to block (random example: never hits Ibuki but ends up on the side she isn’t blocking, and she can’t hit Seth) make it a little easier for Seth.
Makoto/Seth: 5.5-4.5 (-0.5)
It’s like Abel, except she can harass the fuck out of Seth on the ground (unlike Abel) and doesn’t have much of a chance of making a comeback if she gets knocked down in the corner (unlike Abel.)
Rose/Seth: 4-6 (-1.0)
I was gonna call this as a 6.5 until a Rose player chimed in. The way I see it is that Rose can keep Seth out for a while with good reactions. Once Seth has U1, the match up starts to suck since Rose has to back up a metric fuck ton and probably end up stuck in the corner. Rose is basically free on knockdown…which is going to happen. Except Seth has to actually dedicate to doing something to keep her from doing anything. Seth can’t apply his extremely safe stuff and catch everything without having a little distance from Rose, so this kind of helps turn it into a guessing game that Rose can afford to play. It’s a guessing game that’s definitely in his favor, but she has a better chance of getting out than Boxer does - and can actually keep Seth at bay for a little while longer than he can too.
Sagat/Seth: (no change)
Just listing to say that I think it should say 4.5-5.5 after all.
Juri/Seth: 5.5-4.5 (-0.5)
Dunno what else to say, really. Juri has exceptional AAs and they work very well against Seth. Her zoning game is difficult to deal with; Seth can’t really tell which fireball Juri is going to let go and his fst.HP gets caught by the lower one. Countering her fireballs with U1 is difficult - not as hard as catching Guile’s, but not easy enough to do consistently if she has one stored (pretty easy to catch her trying to store one otherwise, though, and that’s worth mentioning.) FSE is an absolute nightmare for Seth to deal with. Juri gets all sorts of bullshit opened up and now she builds meter to top it off. Can’t even risk a TE once she has this going because of the trajectory buffs. It probably sounds like I’m saying the match up is 3-7 from this, but this is all for a .5 change.
Dee Jay/Seth: 3.5-6.5 (-0.5)
Only lowering this by .5 because of Dee Jay’s damage. That, and Seth basically has no reliable answer to a well spaced Sobat, and these avoid Tanden Engines (sometimes fst.HP. Not sure if that’s version specific.) That being said, getting a well spaced Sobat is a bitch because Dee Jay can’t move and Seth probably isn’t gonna stand around there and wait for you. But it leads to a little damage + space gain and can dissuade TE abuse. Which is more than Blanka can say.
Dhalsim/Seth: 3.5-6.5 (-0.5)
Seth doesn’t really have the health to play the usual “oops, got tagged. Time to try again!” He also doesn’t have the walk speed that Cammy and Yun have. I’d say his dive kick is basically worse in this match up too. Still pretty rough for Dhalsim, just…well, not as bad as Yun and Cammy.
Ken/Seth: 5.5-4.5 (+0.5)
Not quite a clear 4-6 for Seth. While Ken likes to troll Seth on a knockdown and generally shuts down a one or two of his anti-DP mix ups, he can actually be zoned fairly well. His “get the fuck off” options aren’t as scary either (well, they do a solid job of getting you the fuck off, but they don’t lead into a full Ultra most of the time.) Like other shotos, has to deal with cst.MP, cst.HP, so can’t abuse his buttons too much.
Yang/Seth: 4.0-6.0 (+0.5)
Dive kicks just aren’t fast enough to really present a problem to Seth. While Seth can run into trouble if he gets cornered, it’s fairly difficult to bully him to that point.
