18681

No possibility Bonchan learned from his matches vs Gouken at Canada Cup almost a year ago now, eh? Those matches weren’t even played on the most recent version of the game. He hasn’t improved in the last year of practice?

Also, it seems forgivable that Bonchan might not know all the ins and outs of the Gouken matchup when his strengths seem to be fighting the best Ryus, Goukis, and Feis. Not everyone can be an expert in every matchup.

18682

I’m gonna need a stronger argument in order to go beyond 4-6.

18683

Ok, I have a question regarding Dhalsim vs Rose match.
Playing to W1n called this match 6-4 sim. I would like to hear oppinions from Heavy Mental, Cerberus and drs Filipinoman, too.

18684

I would like to hear his opinions too.

I would say this:

Far range: Its even, even if dhalsim can fierce Rose’s reflects, there’s a chance that Rose actually hits and gives Rose the time to close the gap between them. Also LP Reflect makes Rose’s hurtbox appear on the back while the hitbox is in front of Rose, creating some sort of wall.

Mid range: I would say slightly in Rose’s favor. While Dhalsim can dish out normals to pushback Rose, they don’t do damage. They only put them back at a neutral state. Dhalsim cannot throw fireballs since they are easy for Rose to throw them back at him/absorbing them or use U1. Only thing she has to watch out for could be Dhalsim’s instant overhead (jump back Fierce). I didn’t test it yet but if Dhalsim does jump back Fierce on Akuma, Akuma can input U1 right away fullscreen to catch Dhalsim. Maybe Rose can do it too with EX spark/Super/U1? I’m not sure for that.

Close Range: In Rose’s favor. Tick throws, frame traps…anything Rose’s throws at Dhalsim can hurt him and bring him closer to the corner. Her throw range provides an excellent way to counter wake up ultras.

Meter is something Dhalsim players have to watch out for. Rose getting meter is quite dangerous for Dhalsim since it gives her more way to challenge the fireball war + dish out great damage. Another thing Dhalsim cannot do once Rose has U1 is doing yoga fire shenanigans during Rose’s wake up. Any fireball thrown at Rose during her wake up = 498 damage on Sim.

Why I think it’s even is because while Rose can counter some dhalsim’s moves, she still can’t go all out after him. She also doesn’t have a clear, decisive way of locking Dhalsim down. She has great movement on the ground, but its not enough:

Reflecting a fireball full screen won’t allow you to dash toward him since Dhalsim can just slide under the reflected fireball and get an untechable knockdown off Rose. While there’s a possibility that Sim gets hit by Rose’s reflect, it’s not that hard for him to time it. And in the end, 75 damage + 140 stun from Dhalsim > 50 damage + 100 stun from Rose’s reflect (still possible that Sim eats both the fireball and the reflect, resulting in 100 damage + 150/200 stun but chances are slim)

Reflecting a fireball at mid range can be a problem for Rose if Dhalsim has U2. (Same thing once Dhalsim has a meterless Rose cornered.)

Rose has the advantage at close range but the problem is that her offense isn’t that impressive. After a few pokes or a tech, Dhalsim can throw his pokes back at her or simply teleport to safety.

The only Dhalsim I play against is snafoo so this is how I see the match.

18685

Unfortunatelly he didn’t gave any :(, only the numbers. This match wasn’t touched by rose players either when we made Rose match ups, so I’m at a loss. What do you think of this match ? I only know of Sabin vs F Champ match from CEO.

18686

I saw Naga trying it and he didn’t get it once. Couldn’t get it in training myself and the timing and spacing is weird and you’d rather do c.mp after mk axe kick anyways iirc. His Dive kick is shit except on KD and even then. Kindof a lame mixup because the spacing and timing is obvious you’re going to do it. Also one bad jumping is a lot of life lost. E.Ryu just can’t DK willy nilly or really at all. Risk-reward is too bad and c.mk does that to half that cast including Cammy. Does he win that matchup now? Of course not.

18687

His Divekick isn’t that bad, he can actually just do a single jab on a Ryu and with just that distance he can jump forward -> divekick to land in front of Ryu. No one just uses it. I think that Evil Ryu just isn’t used by anyone so people don’t really know how to play him properly - A testament to that is that even the top players don’t use most of his tricks. He could pressure much better if they were utilized, like jab jab -> divekick etc. You can also cross up with it but that’ll take practice I guess. The mixup isn’t shitty because you can crossup with the divekick as well on knockdown, it’s very ambiguous.

I don’t think Evil Ryu beats Cammy but then again I have never seen even a top Evil Ryu do an optimized combo so who knows what he’s capable of? Isn’t it ridiculous I haven’t seen a c.MK -> LK Axe Kick FADC combo in a single match despite it being one of his main tools? Isn’t it ridiculous even top Evil Ryus do Hadouken FADC comboes that basically end up doing the exact same dmg as if they just had finished their combo normally, in many cases less? Evil Ryu even has safejumps with option selects against Cammy that take care of all of her options and with the divekick again you can pressure her really hard with the to-tech-or-not-to-tech mixup but no one does that either. So I guess I’m kind of wasting my time because no one does what I’m suggesting <.< Guess we’ll just need to wait for Sako to switch or something.

Also yeah all the top Evil Ryus drop comboes a ton which is interesting. The hard KD combo on Chun really isn’t that difficult though, well I can do it maybe 80% of the time in training mode but I’m no pro … So pros should get it 100% of the time, I’d say. After a kd Evil Ryu again has a safejump option select against all her wakeup and after he gets her to block he can keep pressuring her with multiple ways, just like I mentioned. And again you can dive kick to the front after just a single jab. If she gets hit by a single attack, especially if ER has 2 bars, Chun loses half her hp and is 1 mixup from stun etc.

By the way using ERs divekick against crouch tech is far different from using it otherwise because off a counter hit he can do his full combo which will be around 400dmg total with 0 bars.

18688

Okay, that other post of mine is a bit far back by now, so rather than editing it I’ll use a new one.
This post is about 6 months late buuuut… whatever!

:spades::spades::spades:

General Juri rambling:

Not relevant for anything, really. I just felt like writing it.

[details=Spoiler]The princess is a very unique character due to the extremely versatile nature of her toolset. Every other character has place where he wants to be at (be that “right in your face” or “just at the edge of c.MK range”), and a matchup where he can’t go to that sweetspot tends to be (very) bad (eg Yun wants to be in your face, but if you’re Gief he’s screwed) - Juri doesn’t care where she is at, as she is equally potent at all distances. Instead of trying to get into a specific spot on the screen, she tries to deny the opponent his sweetspot (or at least makes him take as much damage as possible while getting there). This means every single of her matchups is vastly different - she plays rushdown against zoners, hardzones grapplers and dances between fullscreen and point blank range against footsie chars (avoiding the midrange at all costs). This also means she is never truly ‘lost’ - if a rushdown char manages to get in on a classic zoner, that’s game over right there; if you manage to get in on Juri that merely means you’re at an advantage and can still get wrecked by her closerange potential.
Why am I telling you this? Because it’s a base explanation as to why her matchups are hard to rate. It’s not a simple “I want to do X in every matchup, does it work against character Y? Not really; 4-6” but a load more complicated due to the options she has.
As the easiest example; in the Seth matchup most Juris you see are playing a very passive zoning type game. I have never seen that work even halfway properly due to the sheer amount of approach options Seth has - he WILL get to where he wants to be, and then Juri’s shitty defense makes her bleed. Is this a terrible terrible matchup (just looking at results it sure seems to be)? In my opinion, no. Juri wins this if she interrupts his momentum by some means, as he can cope with her pressure not much better than she can with his. But why let him get the momentum in the first place then? I think Juri has to approach this matchup fundamentally different than is commonly done and play a balls to the walls crazycat that abuses his low health, lack of options at the midrange and reliance on gambling with Tanden Engine.
Further example - Even the most basic of matchups are hard to rate, because the finer nuances can change a lot. Juri-Gief, Juri zones him (obviously), so we just have to look at how well this works, right? No. It’s not like a Dhalsim who gets slowly pressured towards the corner because he is lost at close range - Juri can decide to not backdash away from an approaching rushdown character but instead cancel the keepaway-game midway and rather fight him midscreen than do additional damage at the cost of positioning.
Lastly, this means that rarely played matches where the opponent does not have a 100% gameplan either (such as, uh, Juri-Gouken) are basically uncallable not just because of the lack of results to compare any opinion with, but simpler because one can’t really form an opinion in the first place. In the Gouken matchup, do I want to rush him down or play a fullscreen game? Even if I lose every game against Gouken, maybe I just need a fundamentally different approach to the matchup? I do have troubles playing this, but I have no idea whether it’s because the matchup is bad, or because I handle it wrong (or because I suck and Gouken is just easy to play).
Of course to an extend this applies to all of the lesser known characters, but imo Juri has it worse because she has no clearcut safepaths. Ibuki will always be a character that uses decent normals toppled with good mobility to score a knockdown and apply a vortex game. Even if I have no idea about the specifics and haven’t ever seen it in play, I can take a decently safe guess that she is going to have troubles against Dictator, as his buttons are better than hers and he got a million and one ways to escape post-knockdown pressure. Whether that is actually true or whether Ibuki has some secret tricks in her toolbox which work miraculously well then stands to be tested, but the point is - that first guessing stage isn’t even present for Juri.[/details]

Now, with all that in mind, toppled with the safe guess that I’m one of the worst players in this thread - Take everything with some grains of salt, and feel free to dissect me.

Random other note: Feng Shui Engine is shaping up to be one of the most reliable ways to make a crushing comeback. Yossan occasionally looks like his gameplan is “I’ll just sit here; please remove half my life so I can kill you”. It’s some scary shit and will only get scarier. I’m not sure whether it will be sufficient to swing entire matchups around, but her not being royally screwed once someone like Boxer takes the lifelead is a notable remark.

:spades::spades::spades:

Proposed changes in a nutshell

Seth - 4.5/4 (↓ from 5)
Honda - 3 (↓ from 3.5)
Sakura - 3.5/4 (↑ from 3)
Boxer - 6/5.5 (↑ from 5)
Ryu - 5.5/5 (↓ from 6)
Zangief - 6 (↓ from 6.5)
Dhalsim - 4 (↓ from 5)
Dudley - 6.5/6 (↑ from 5)
THawk - 7/6.5 (↑ from 6)
Adon - 4.5/4 (↓ from 5)
Rufus - 4 (↓ from 5)

For a total of ~about ±0.

(Plus some sidenotes to find in the charts at the bottom)

:spades::spades::spades:

**Matchuuuups! **

First, 2 Sidenotes:
1) While I wrote this, I talked with genkibot (an actually good Juri player) and put his comments in. This makes some things look strange (I suggest changing a number but have “Ignore this” behind the number, because after I wrote the paragraph genki convinced me it was bollocks, but I didn’t want to delete it).
2) If I don’t change a number that doesn’t necessarily mean I think it’s right; might be just that I have no fucking clue / feel I lack the sufficient knowledge. I put a chart at the end to give a better idea of my impressions.

Seth - 4.5/4
As noted above, this is hard to rate because imo everyone plays it wrong. You can see how it ~about goes here: JroJro v Poongko, Haneyama v Hiropon, Younashi v Kazunoko.
As seen, Juri is eating rubber dog poo; but whenever she makes an offensive maneuver, Seth’s health depletes at an alarming rate. Younashi plays a 100% defensive Juri and thus gets utterly wrecked.
However, I don’t think her own pressure game is sufficient to make this an equal matchup - though not half as bad as particularly the Younashi set makes it look like. I’m leaning to only slight advantage for Seth.
Genki thinks it’s a 4.

Abel - 5.5 (don’t change)
Noted this before. He has issues to get around her zoning and she can take a lot of steam off his stepkick pressure via utilizing s.c.forward (which is throw immune), while he is pretty free to her offense.
RicoSuave v JRose, Younashi v Nekojita, More Younashi v Nekojita
Don’t change this though, Juicebox quite obviously is a player that knows Juri stuff. Just sad there was no reasoning =(
I guess I can ask Genki, who also deems this 5-5.

Honda - 3
Honestly this sucks and I have no idea what to do. Doubly frustrating because the Honda can be played by an average doorknob. See here for example matches. Fuck this guy. (Sorry EB. I don’t like him.)

Sakura - 3.5/4
Not much reasoning other than “Noway this is as bad as Honda”. At least here one needs a trained monkey to win.What Skatan wrote is right - one has a very hard time zoning Sakura because her j.HP beats our antiairs; her pressure is hard to cope with and even our only actual gimmick (counter) is screwed due to armorbreak on tatsu.
However, her own inability to cope with pressure, our access to AA fireballs and worse buttons compared to the sumo make this playable. Cornering her is an actual threat she has to watch out for.
This is also one of the matchups where watching 5 Juris will give you 5 different ways to approach it.
Didn’t find any notable example matches; the stuff a quick Yt search provides is mostly bollocks (JRose winning a FT5 5-1, people just jumping around like megahorney rabbits). This is probably the best I found and it features Sak being unable to punish an ExWheel <>

Dictator - Lul
Neurosis thinks this is in her advantage (and such seems to be common thought in Japan; to quote the Yubiken commentator “This matchup is terrible for Dictator. If he gets her into the corner he wins, but doing that is very hard. She is like a female Guile”). I can see how this hops into her advantage if one believes she can reliably zone him. I don’t. And results don’t, either (even Younashi loses to this guy).
So: I disagree, but thought I’d drop it off anyways.

Makoto - 5 …Ignore this
Would love some reasoning on this. I put forth the original proposal that it’s not in Makotos advantage - which was already opposing most tourney results. I still don’t believe Juri is worse off here, but Makotos explosive potential off a single focus-dash-karakusa makes a signifikant Juri-plus too much of a stretch imo. Though FSE also wrecks the tomboy… meh, I guess I can …sorta?.. get behind 5.5 (not really :looney:) , but 6 seems way too harsh. Anyone’s game, really.
Genki noted Juri got two reliable unblockables which push it in her favour. I guess that counts as a good reason. Kept this (rather than completely deleting) for other confused people.

Boxer - ? (probably 6/5.5)
Japan apparently believes this to be in Juri’s favour (same Yubiken commentator). I’m not opposed to the idea, but I lack any actual matchup experience against people that don’t just fullscreen dashpunch into my s.forward (same issue as with eg Blanka matchup), there’s no exposure at all and the commentator didn’t give anything beyond the naked statement either. I can fabricate some reasoning, but this is not a change I would’ve confidently brought forth on my own. Make of that what you will. (Meaning: Unlike the Neurosis-claim, this isn’t much of a stretch to state and it coincides with my feel of the matchup, but we lack actual reasons. Your choice whether you keep it as-is, make it a 5.5 or try to find some Boxer player)
Genkibot said he talked with several Juris and Boxers and all feel it’s 6-4 in her favour.

Guile - 4.5 (maybe. I guess not.)
Meh. Again, this is less of a “I disagree with the sentiment” and more of a “If I look at other 4s, this isn’t that bad”. Hardfocussing U1 Juri seems to be the way to go, as Guile dies really fast (and aiai played terribly, but it was the first vid I found where someone does this).
Genki doesn’t trust that approach and thinks the matchup is “4-6 or worse”. :shake: Keep it the way it is, I guess.

Ryu - 5.5/5
I know I’m the one who made it 6, but I talked some with Genki and he more or less convinced me their closerange game is equal (rather than Juri having the advantage). Long=Juri, Mid=Ryu, Close=Even is 5-5 overall, but I do feel this matchup is “easy”, plus Juris advantage of the initial dance (getting some damage in) sticks around, while Ryus (cornering her) is rather ‘fleeting’.
I’m sticking with my mild edge for the lady for now, Genki thinks it’s a stretch but doesn’t entirely oppose it.

Sagat
Ehehehe. Nah, keep it this way; I overestimated her chances.

Zangief - 6
Gief doesn’t have any real options which don’t involve substantial risk, but gambling pays off huge for him. Not sure on this. Genki calls it anything between 5-6; I can’t see this being even at all. The amount of times Gief is allowed to fuck up and the amount of work Juri has to put in this make it “probably not higher than 6”.

Dhalsim - 4
Not something I can say much about, but I trust Mike on this (last paragraph)

Dudley - uh, what (6.5/6)
5-5? Get in - kill me, yes, but how do you get in? I just don’t see it. Okay, he is better off than Hawk because he isn’t monstrously big so my offense isn’t as coozy, but that’s about it; at least the natureman got some far reaching normals. Even if he gets in it’s no autoloss and coping with her pressure is not something he can do either. I’ll let matchvideos speak for themselves as this really comes down to “Dudders has no way at all to become a threat”. This is like, uh, 6.5-3.5 or something (Gief is much more of a threat).
Younashi v* DontAskMeWho*
21:20 Shin v Kuroken ; 57:00 Younashi v Kuroken
I don’t see anything Dudley has here if the Juri plays properly … maybe I’m overzealous again, but 5-5? That looks crazy… even if we take more human players (JRose v SmugDaBeast94) she notably comes out on top. No idea how this would be less than 6-4.
Genki thinks it’s 6-4 (and no more than that)

THawk - 7/6.5
Don’t know why this got changed. Searched for a reason, didn’t find any. Doesn’t have real options to approach,doesn’t have a way to handle her offense either (fuzzyyyy). Compared to Gief, ExSpire knocks down (this is actually worse) and is very slow … Genki noted (correctly) that I’ve never met a ‘Hawk specialist’, but either way I don’t see much that TH has here (Genki also calls this 6.5). At the very least, this feels (significantly) easier than Gief.

Other notes (Genkistuff):

Adon 4.5/4

[details=Spoiler]07:22 - gb: adon isn’t 5-5
07:22 - gb: no way in hell[/details]

Rufus 4

[details=Spoiler]07:27 - gb: rufus 5-5???
07:27 - gb: ???
07:27 - gb: ???
07:27 - gb: who the fuck put that in there?
07:27 - gb: that is the dumbest shit i’ve ever seen
07:27 - gb: ever
07:28 - gb: seriously though who in the hell put rufus at 5-5?
07:28 - gb: lol
07:28 - gb: jesus christ
07:28 - gb: that makes me salty
07:29 - gb: her 3 worst matchups
07:29 - gb: honda
07:29 - gb: rufus
07:29 - gb: guile
07:29 - gb: in that order
07:34 - gb: Juicebox v JustinWong
07:34 - gb: give them that too
07:34 - gb: and watch juri get spanked
07:37 - gb: if messiah didn’t whiff on juri
07:37 - gb: 7-3
07:38 - Vulpes: no 6.5 tho?
07:38 - gb: nah
07:38 - gb: 6-4
07:38 - gb: is fair[/details]

Might wanna change espec the latter :pleased:

:spades::spades::spades:

For completeness’ sake:

[details=Spoiler]My matchup chart
A 5 with a +/- behind means "I feel this is about equal / lack the knowledge to make a point for a change, but if it’s not equal then more likely in this direction.
? means I have no fucking idea and it could be anything from 7-3 to 3-7.

Juri
5.5 Abel
5- Adon
4 Akuma
5+ Balrog
6 C.Viper
4 Cammy
5 Chun
5- Cody
6.5 Dan
? Dee Jay
6.5 Dudley
3 E.Honda
? El Fuerte
5+ Evil Ryu
5 Fei Long
5- Gen
5- Gouken
4.5/4 Guile
? Guy
? Hakan
5- Ibuki
5- Ken
4 M.Bison
5(okay, 6 I guess) Makoto
5+ Oni
5.5 Rose
5- Rufus
5.5 Ryu
6 Sagat
3.5 Sakura
4.5/4 Seth
7/6.5 T.Hawk
5- Vega
5+ Yang
5- Yun
6 Zangief

Genki: "Only ones I particularly disagree with are:
Dudley - It’s not more than 6-4
Sakura - Not more than 4-6
Guile - Definitely 6-4 or worse[/details]

Oh, and while I’m at it:

[details=Spoiler]Genki’s current list
Juri on the left

Abel 5 - 5
Adon 4 - 6
Akuma 4 - 6
Balrog 5 - 5
Blanka 4 - 6
C. Viper 6 - 4
Cammy 4 - 6
Chun Li 5.5 - 4.5
Cody 5 - 5
Dan 6 - 4
Dee Jay 5 - 5
Dhalsim 5 - 5
Dudley 6 - 4
E. Honda 3.5 - 6.5
El Fuerte 4.5 - 5.5
Evil Ryu 5.5 - 4.5
Fei Long 5 - 5
Gen 5 - 5
Gouken 5.5 - 4.5
Guile 4 - 6
Guy 4.5 - 5.5
Hakan 6 - 4
Ibuki 5 - 5
Ken 4.5 - 5.5
M. Bison 4 - 6
Makoto 6 - 4
Oni 5 - 5
Rose 5 - 5
Rufus 4 - 6
Ryu 5 - 5
Sagat 6 - 4
Sakura 4 - 6
Seth 4 - 6
T. Hawk 6.5 - 3.5
Vega 5 - 5
Yang 6 - 4
Yun 5 - 5
Zangief 5.5 - 4.5[/details]

18689

Yes, Snafoo also called it 5-5.

Ok guys, I have a request. If you know any knowledegeable player that lurks on srk - please let me know. There are a couple of characters that we are badly covered, and I scrolled the character subforums, but I’m not sure who knows his stuff. I finally found a mainer for Balrog, so in the incoming days we will discuss it. I will list here the characters that still need some attention:

  • Adon
  • Viper
  • Bison
  • Ryu
  • Gouken

So, if you know any mainer for these chars that are knowledgeable and trustworthy, let me know. Even if is not one of these chars, but the person knows his stuff and his oppininon is worthy, you can tell me.

Also, we have some Juri discussion - finally :smiley: (I’ll get back to it).

18690

Alright, we have some JURI proposed changes. (check for the reasons in Vulpes’s post).

  • Seth: 5-5 to 4.5-5.5/ 4-6 - Breaker ? what do you think ?
  • Honda: 3.5-6.5 to 3-7 - ah ohhh. Nybb, what do you think ?
    The problem is, I talked with 2 top honda players. This is what they said:
    Cuongster: 4-6 honda
    Mr.Snk: 5-5: “This match is even, Juri’s MK Super can punish all of Honda’s headbutts and her pressure game will open most bad Honda’s up like a can of worms… Not to mention her standing MK is an amazing zoning tool against Honda. How ever she has no real defense and suffers from her fat hitbox.”
  • Sakura: 3-7 to 3.5-6.5/ 4-6
    This is what Skatan said: " 3-7 sakura. She can’t keep Sakura out at all, and she can’t get Sakura off of her when she’s close. If Sakura is using lk shunpu pressure, EX Pinwheel will trade with her cl.hp/c.hp and Sakura gets a free combo from it. The only answer she has is reversal throw, which sakura can punish by straight jumping or just doing ex sho. Sakura’s okizeme against Juri is very strong too due to her tall hitbox and weak reversal options, and she’s got low health."
  • Balrog: 5-5 to 6-4/ 5.5-4.5
    I talked with 3enigmatic and he said the match is 5-5
  • Ryu: 6-4 to 5.5-4.5/ 5-5

[media=youtube]sB2EBpJ1RA8[/media]

  • Zangief: 6.5-3.5 to 6-4 - gief mainers ? Macho, Veggey, Sharin ?
    well, this one is controversial.
    Meansaltine: "6-4. It’s tough, but I dont think it is that tough. I beat juicebox’s juri pretty good last time i played him. You can still crush her after a knockdown."
    MachoRhombus - 6-4 (also made an argument)
    Sharin - 7-3
    Veggey - 7-3
  • Dhalsim: 5-5 to 4-6
    Snafoo: "I did a couple of set vs neoweirdo and he wrecked me. I didn’t know the matchup but her U1 is soooooo good vs sim she can literally comeback vs a full health sim. He says it’s 5-5 but im having a hard time believing it. For now i’ll say 6-4 juri from my experience."
    Playing to w1n: 5-5
  • Dudley: 5-5 to 6.5-3.5/ 6-4
    Cliffeside - 5-5
    34 - 5-5
  • Hawk: 6-4 to 7-3/ 6.5-3.5
    Blueblazer - 6-4 (he first called it 5.5-4.5)
    Melubas - 6-4: " If she insists on throwing fireballs Hawk can build meter by whiffing 360s or spires, or build ultra by focus absorbing them. It all comes down to who gets the lifelead really."
  • Adon: 5-5 to 4.5-5.5/ 4-6
  • Rufus: 5-5 to 4-6
    Ranmasama - 5.5-4.5
    Vivaldi - 5-5

[media=youtube]3guJa6pzo48[/media]

I see some of the stuff I posted you already addressed.

On Juri vs Abel: Juicebox, 801 Strider and Nah Frenchie all called it 5-5.

Juri-Makoto: 801 Strider thinks is 6-4 juri.

Also, Genkibot is envited to the party, too. It would be nice to hear his thoughts. Juri is easily one of the least discussed characters.

Oh, and I have some questions too:

  • Juri vs Blanka: well Illitirit asked to be changed to 4.5-5.5 , also made an argument. Veserius agreed with this. I’m not sure why the change wasn’t performed.
    I would like to hear oppinions from vulpes, Genki, Veserius.

  • Juri vs Yun: controversial stuff. Breaker first called it 4-6 yun. Then 6-4 juri. Vulpes - 4.5-5.5. Dafeetlee - 5-5 but he doesn’t use 0.5 (so it might be 4.5). Hsien Chang 5-5 (but his numbers for Yun were REALLY low… one single 6-4, ag. sim…).

I would like to know what do you think on these matches, too.

18691

Seth: Beats Juri 6 - 4. Very hard to challenge his dive kick and frail defence leaves her very vulnerable to his ridiculous mixup.

Honda: 6 - 4 I could agree with. Definitely not 5 - 5.

Sakura: 6 - 4 in Sak’s favour. 7 - 3 is OTT imo. It’s definitely hard but Juri can challenge air to air well enough, 2 unblockables into and during FSE help a bit too.

Boxer: 5 - 5 Agree.

Ryu: 5 - 5 Agree.

Gief: If Juri wins 7 - 3, Sagat wins 8 - 2 or 9 - 1. Green hand not knocking down and SPD range buff took away Juri’s decent wake up against him and the ability to close forward out of all SPD/Ultra 1.

Sim: 5 - 5 Agree.

Dudley: Juri wins 6 - 4 IMO. 2 fireballs on the screen at once means no command dash, even 1 at times because it’s so slow. No problem anti airing, easy safe jumps and multiple instant overheads and fake crossups to work with.

Hawk: Happy to agree with 6 - 4 if Hawk players are. Even Juri players themselves overrate her in this match because they’re predominantly online players and majority of online Hawks like to play spin the bottle with their arcade stick/pad = free win for Juri.

Adon: Definitely beats her 6 - 4. Hard for her to anti air when he can change trajectory, risk is high reward is low to attempt to punish Jaguar Kicks and it’s very hard to get out once he’s close.

Rufus: 5 - 5? No. Just no. Have to be full screen just to even attempt to store a fireball, or waste a bar on ex so he can’t punish store with crouch fierce. Rufus beats her air to air with Roundhouse > to her Strong. Delayed dive kicks shit on her OS tech + C.Strong or C.Fierce. I could go on… The only thing Juri has going for her in that match is being able to make messiah whiff.

Abel: 5 - 5 Agree.

Makoto: 6 - 4 in Juri’s favour. Mak can hurt anyone up close, but close forward renders blockakusa useless, easy enough to keep her out, unblockable town on Makoto too.

Blanka: I can agree with Blanka winning 5.5 - 4.5

Yun: 5 - 5 Now.

my 2c anyway.

18692

Yeah, that’s the thing I responded to ^waaay back (and linked in this new post). He also had the interesting perception that (as seen in the linked post above) “Japanese Juris beat Honda very easily” and “Juri AAs him np”, both of which I disproved (after which he got defensive and refused to continue communicating).
I mean even for him, the reasons are “Juri can super to punish headbutt” (convenietly not noting that she can’t do anything about it until she has super (and has to get 4 bars against someone she can’t touch and can’t safely store against)) and “Bad Hondas will have problems” which is :looney:
I’ll gladly go back on this if some Honda tells me a semi viable sounding option I have, but right now it’s me being forced to play a 100% perfect zoning game and still losing to him jumping around like a retard while occasionally shooting a random headbutt.

Does that mean you agree or that you propose switching it to 1-9 (Neo was on drugs there)? :shy:

Also note that the discrepancies between Genki’s list (last thing in the post) and the chart in general are semi-suggestions for changes (eg the Yang 6-4). Those are just mostly numbers I couldn’t say anything about, so I left them uncommented (and split from the rest of the post).

18693

No, it was the only ryu-juri match I found and I thought posting it. I will take a closer look at both lists. Juri-Yang: Illiterate (yanga mainer) was unsure on the match.

18694

There is one reason why I love this thread so much:
Whenever there is matchup analysis the “GEN” matchup is always non existent. the true sign of an assassin.:slight_smile:

18695

I’m sure that if you had a take on some of his matchups, nobody here would mind.

(Sidenote: Be glad he isn’t part of the “Uuuuh… I don’t know anything about this guy… woohoo free points!”-squad :looney:)

18696

I can see Juri having the advantage vs Makoto. Surprisingly I find her one of the most difficult characters to approach her unique brand of zoning does a great job of keeping Makoto at bay. Obviously Makoto can put the hurt on her if she can get into position but it’s damn tough.

18697

[media=youtube]6FDjA0ItOC8[/media]

18698

Emanuelb if Bison match up info is needed I can provide abit on a good few of his matches.

18699

Certainly. Since ShadowOS kinda dropped us, bison was left in the dark. Take a look at his match ups (tier list is in my sig) and see if you disagree. I will also make a revision for his match ups and I’ll ask you more specific questions.

18700

Regarding Dictator, you can try to reach out to:
kim1234 (username ohayo1234)
emp hiro (jeron)
happy medicine (jakob002)
gagapa (gagapa)

there are some others but happy medicine and gagapa are probably your best bet for getting a response.