Hmm I think Chun’s wakeup is merely okay because EX SBK is so easy to safejump and hilariously punishable. Rose I have 2 knockdowns I can safejump u2 off of, and I have an os that tags her backdash/counterhits ex soul spiral.
I mean their wakeup isn’t super terrible or anything, but outside of Rose U2, I never go “ugh this is so dumb” when knock them down.
I think I’ve gone to hit cody’s backdash and my close normal came out instead of the far one. It’s that bad.
It’s only -200ish on block or something, totally viable.
Thankfully for me those crossup BKs are gonna get eaten alive by the new Fukiage.
I just think she gets a bit too much damage off her stuff. At least with Makoto I have to work my way in to get my damage. Viper can just take off into fucking orbit. An overall damage nerf (not TOO much, just a bit) and I’d be happy.
I do understand what you’re saying, though. She’s part of that new breed of SF4 characters like Fuerte and Abel who go against Street Fighter’s traditional style of footsies/zoning/spacing for heavy rushdown and mix-ups. I feel like Ono might have wanted that style of gameplay all along(he IS a big fan of 3S after all), and the upcoming SSF4: Rushdown/Divekick/Mix-Up Fiesta Edition might be his way to rectify that.
I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about them going against tradition because those fundamentals are still there for them. It’s not like you just RTSD, get a knockdown, and play Russian Roulette with them.
You can completely stop Fuerte’s and Abel’s momentum with a solid prediction, though. Burn Kicks are relatively safe compared to Tostada Press and Tornado Throw. Blocking a Press or jumping a Tornado Throw leads to a solid punish, but blocking a Burn Kick puts you into another mixup.
I know if SF4 was somebody’s first SF game and they wanted to learn, Viper would be the absolutely last character I’d recommend, Fuerte being second. You aren’t even play SSF4 like the rest of the cast, you’re playing C.Viper and her own warped set of “fundamentals”, with character-specific match-up execution and almost exclusive abuse of special moves to win.
Third Strike’s rushdown was very difficult though. Even Makoto, the char that you either love or hate in SF3 requires high execution on a physical AND mental level. You can’t just do whatever you want.
The one thing people don’t like is brainless tactics, “don’t think, just do it” and I think that’s a perfectly legitimate complaint.
Viper’s aerial burn kicks are extremely brainless once you learn to Instant Air them. They’re safe on block, can crossup, if they trade it’s usually in your favor and they can hit behind you without any method of telling which way to block for the defending player. I remember extremely few moves in Third Strike that were as brainless as this (Denjin Hadouken trollololol)
Right, every high level Viper player spams aerial bk all the time. Unavoidable, unpredictable and unpunishable. They even do 40%dmg. Nerf that plz. And remove U1 juggles, clearly imba.
I just wish Vipers air burn kicks were slightly negative on block instead of +4 for mk and +6 for lk. That shit is ridiculous. I can understand making them safe, but Viper shouldn’t be rewarded for guessing incorrectly. Make them even or -1 and I’ll be much happier. You can even give her a little buff somewhere to compensate I really don’t care. Oh and take a little damage off her U1.
Burning kicks are good, but overrated. Free lvl 2 fa if you can predict one. You just gotta know the right spacing so she doesn’t cross you up and make your fa whiff. And since she has low life, she can’t afford to take more than 1 fa combo a round, so she can’t just spam them mindlessly across the screen.
But yeah, them having so much advantage on block is kind of silly either way. And even that was nerfed slightly from vanilla to super. IIRC, the HK version used to be +4 and the MK version used to be +2.
edit: On the other hand, I’m pretty sure that the + frames on burning kick don’t take into account the amount of frames it takes for her to drop back to the ground, so it’s not like she can burning kick all the way across the screen and be like “Hella frame advantage, u mad?” very easily. Instant air burning kick? Yeah, she can then.
I dunno, I think AE Makoto has a lot of herpderp stuff tbh. Makoto and Viper really aren’t that different in the grand scheme of things.
Viper, Twins or any other character’s stooopid shit wouldn’t be so bad if half the cast didn’t eat nerf bat. Yeah trade the top half of the chart for the middle. Balanced now eh… ?
On another note, it is kinda nice to play footsie blankas more often than not. I respect that character in the arcade now.
Viper has a nice set of features, but I kind of wish they would tweak the burn kicks.
She has a reversal that’s invincible to lows and throws from the very first frame without meter (LK ground burn kick) and this reversal is safe on block!
And her HP thunder knuckle trade to U1 is much more derp than Ryu’s trade to U1 ever was since Ryu’s damage nerf.
EX seismo if uninterrupted is completely safe since you can super jump out while the opponent is still in blockstun.
She can still get blown up though, by characters who have more methods of doing safe damage to her (Yun, Yang, Sagat).
