SSF4 Tier List Thread REBOOT Super + AE (Updated: 02-01-09)

[Carltwo]

yeah but akuma’s shit gets rocked by Yun/Yang, don’t know about Adon.

I’ve never really understood this perspective at all. The majority of characters in A and B in Super are offensive oriented.

also this to some extent. Cammy, Fei Long, Akuma, Abel, Seth were all great characters in super. just because you guys didn’t get to play without brains doesn’t mean the game is completely Defense oriented.

[Trini_Judoka]

Def agree that defensive characters were a bit overrated in super. Also, people quickly forget that one of the reasons why the game is defensive in the first place is because reversals are so strong in the game. People are always looking for bait > punish.

On a high high level the game was played very fast tho. Even Mr. Ross in most MU’s was not a down-back whore with Honda. He def was trying to pressure with hands.

Also, Akuma falls into category B “I get ass raped by yun”. And now Adon has to like block on wake up.

[Data_Beast]

I’ve never really understood this perspective at all.

I understand it but I don’t totally agree with it. It’s an argument that presupposes that the turtle killers (the twins and Fei Long) are going to dominate the game to such a degree that picking a (nerfed in AE) defensive character like Guile or Dhalsim will be a waste of time. I can understand where people are coming from when I look at it that way. On the other hands, nerfed or not, all of the characters still play the same. SF4 isn’t the Alpha or DarkStalkers series, where each revision had sweeping system changes. AE is still very much SF4 so it will always have a pronounced defensive element.

[xekrn]

sometimes its just not worth it to be a character loyalist

It has nothing to do with character loyalty. But when you are forced to use certain characters to counter one or two characters in a fighting game because any other efforts are just not worthwhile, you know this game has serious issues.

Just look at how many Japanese players have dropped their SSF4 mains and hopped on the twins train and how many twins were there in NSB 25 tops.

[pedoviejo]

It has nothing to do with character loyalty. But when you are forced to use certain characters to counter one or two characters in a fighting game because any other efforts are just not worthwhile, you know this game has serious issues.

Just look at how many Japanese players have dropped their SSF4 mains and hopped on the twins train and how many twins were there in NSB 25 tops.

One point of your post is half right, I shouldn’t have to use a character that I don’t like, to beat someone. However counter picking and bad match ups have been a staple in the fighting game industry since SF2, and is something that you have to accept as a reality and just deal with it. By your logic SF2, SF3, SFA1-3, CvsSNK 2, MvC2, MvC3, are games with serious issues. There can’t be a game with even match ups, its not possible. Character archetypes by default lose to other characters and you can’t buff them to deal with those issues with out

1. overpowering
2. making everybody essentially the same

And Japanese are not honor bound holy warriors that are low tier heroes,who don’t counter pick. Japan is full of tier whores, just like Americans and Euro’s. Only reason you see people stick with their characters in Japan is because there tournaments are run on character lock rules so might as well invest all your time in a character you like

I don’t like the twins as much as the next guy, but it is what it is.

[Carltwo]

One point of your post is half right, I shouldn’t have to use a character that I don’t like, to beat someone. However counter picking and bad match ups have been a staple in the fighting game industry since SF2, and is something that you have to accept as a reality and just deal with it. By your logic SF2, SF3, SFA1-3, CvsSNK 2, MvC2, MvC3, are games with serious issues. There can’t be a game with even match ups, its not possible. Character archetypes by default lose to other characters and you can’t buff them to deal with those issues with out

1. overpowering
2. making everybody essentially the same

And Japanese are not honor bound holy warriors that are low tier heroes,who don’t counter pick. Japan is full of tier whores, just like Americans and Euro’s. Only reason you see people stick with their characters in Japan is because there tournaments are run on character lock rules so might as well invest all your time in a character you like

I don’t like the twins as much as the next guy, but it is what it is.

agreed with everything said here. except we had a fairly balanced game in which even the very top characters had bad match ups/hard counters. Yun doesn’t have hard counters. Unless some goofy shit comes out like someone discovers Ken has some unblockable loop after a sweep into itself that only works on Yun or something like that, he won’t.

[B.L.Pancho]

If Gamerbee hates AE, it’s certainly not because Adon got raped. After playing the game I’m still as interested as ever to play Adon and I honestly feel almost no real impact to my gameplan just because his wakeup speed got slower. Well spaced jaguars pressure is still the shit, he got godlier normals and a slight health boost.

[Trini_Judoka]

turtle killers (the twins and Fei Long) are going to dominate the game to such a degree that picking a (nerfed in AE) defensive character like Guile or Dhalsim will be a waste of time…

For the record, Fei can turtle like a muthafucka when he’s ready to. He’s pretty much designed to punish… movement.

[B.L.Pancho]

So wait quick question here, has it been accepted that Yun has NO bad matchups yet? Or do people still think twins lose to Gief/Rog? What’s the deal?

[xekrn]

So wait quick question here, has it been accepted that Yun has NO bad matchups yet? Or do people still think twins lose to Gief/Rog? What’s the deal?

Generally speaking they are 4-6 against grapplers so that’s why you see a lot of geif / hawk in Japanese team tournaments.

I don’t think they have a hard time to deal with rog or any other charge characters though.

[jason87]

there is a context to this. i don’t know about luffy, but alioune had the game for at least a week before it went out. he’s know for being VERY proficient at discovering strength and weaknesses of the characters he chooses. moreover, both are pad players and the only other way to train was to play on arcade cabinets : i do think that luffy was at a disadvantage here.

Oh we better rephrase that then. A day 1 yang didn’t beat one of the top roses. A day 7 yang beat one of the top roses. That makes it all better now right? With enough time, i do think its possible to learn how to beat Yun players using the lower cast. Switching to one of the upper cast members, i think i can learn how to beat Yun in LESS time.

In Super, I could imagine any of up to 20 cast members winning a tournament. In AE, I can only think of around 10.

[B.L.Pancho]

Generally speaking they are 4-6 against grapplers so that’s why you see a lot of geif / hawk in Japanese team tournaments.

I don’t think they have a hard time to deal with rog or any other charge characters though.

I definately heard someone rather influential say that Boxer tosses around at least one of the twins (maybe yang)…

[Mackdaddi]

Yun doesn’t have hard counters. Unless some goofy shit comes out like someone discovers Ken has some unblockable loop after a sweep into itself that only works on Yun or something like that, he won’t.

Fingers crossed for this, because he looks like being a fcking bstard to deal with. Like sagat from Vanilla IV all over again. They just fixed that “god tier” BS in super, now they start it all over again??

I hope that this is all early impressions and there are strategies for beating him that are figured out in the next while, otherwise it will be like 3S, all you’ll ever get to play against are Yun whores.

Oh well, I’ll main my mains, and deal with the sh1t when it comes up. Am not switching characters just to suit somebody else’s pick.

[Laughter_7]

didnt know adon and akuma both got raped by ono?

Adon got raped on wake up speed. E.g. It used to be impossible for Akuma to mix him up properly because he woke up so fast. He can now be safe jumped.

Akuma got better and worse, in a sense. Better in that some of his bad match-ups were tilted in his favour (e.g. Adon wake up nerf, Cammy DK nerf), and his U2 now hits crouching opponents, making teleport way safer. But worse thanks to the loss of the tatsu escape and because he gets raped by the twins: no tatsu sweep, wonky DF throw, etc, etc.

[Neiburo]

I love AE so far. I’ve been trying out Dudley, Sakura and they seem like bigger threats here than in super. Got a 80% win rate against yun so far, but agree that some nerfs would be in order. Just fix the range on the command grab, make ex lunge -2 on block and that would make a huge difference IMO.

[Alioune]

alioune had the game for at least a week before it went out.

what?

[kemar7856]

this sucks they nerfed everyone to make yun and yang S teir is such bs everyone one is either using them or ryu

[Neiburo]

They havent nerfed everyone. wth r some of u talking about?

[ilitirit]

Mods: Can we have a general discussion thread? This thread should be about tiers and matchups. Everything else should go in there.

[HNIC_Mike]

agreed with everything said here. except we had a fairly balanced game in which even the very top characters had bad match ups/hard counters. Yun doesn’t have hard counters. Unless some goofy shit comes out like someone discovers Ken has some unblockable loop after a sweep into itself that only works on Yun or something like that, he won’t.

gief, hawk, sagat.

the game may have been fairly balanced, but you still werent winning a tourney with a bottom half character. the main difference is that now its 3 characters beating up on low tier as opposed to a whole half a roster

They havent nerfed everyone. wth r some of u talking about?

this