Just to clarify, this is my understanding of her jumping normals in SSF4:
-They’re the same in all types of jumps except for jumping HP, which has a neutral version and an angled version.
-Jumping MP is the horizontal poke that looks like c.MP
-Jumping LP is the diagonal punch
Is that correct?
v-ryu
4482
i think U2 anti back should work too.
2 MP -> no delay -> U2
You have no risk to cancel 2MP…cause you cant cancel into ultra xD
(same works for ken vs viper in vanille. 2LK -> ultra, in case of burning kick)
Thinking about potential setups off knockdowns for Makoto. Some characters have some really toothy mixups off knockdowns that lead into more knockdowns. There should be something that Makoto could use to get something similar.
Potential starters.
I bet HK Tsurugi would be a nice setup. You can tech the knockdown but it has to be done [media=youtube]t0isRB_WoWc#t=6m05s"]extremely fast, and if you don’t tech it you get knocked down for [.
[media=youtube]zJ8iJNpt5ng#t=1m22s"]Ultra 1](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8iJNpt5ng#t=0m16s"[/media) has a very long knockdown. It also seems like there is enough time for a setup after backthrow or [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8iJNpt5ng#t=0m30s”[/media] (can you tech this?)
It seems like you can get a mixup after [media=youtube]zJ8iJNpt5ng#t=1m57s"[/media] although it probably won’t be as deep as the other setups. Maybe EX Hayate in the corner might be worth something too.
Potential mixups.
Well, there’s the standard Makoto high/low/throw combination on their wakeup. In addition to that you’ve got instant tsurugi and a crossup j.MK.
Tsurugi probably can’t cross up by itself but you could maybe do something similar to Viper’s or Cammy’s backthrow setups. The setups off that move can go multiple matches without using exactly the same thing twice. -If- you can get a setup where Tsurugi makes you land on a side of your choice based on the strength used and it lands before the enemy wakes up, then you get an empty ambiguous crossup into meaty mixup that doesn’t lose to autocorrect (although they can still :db::df::db::df: a SRK if they’re wise.)
On top of that you’d get safe jumps, crossup j.MK, fake crossup j.MK or Tsurugi, and all of your normal mixup options with or without the jump setup including stopping short at one of a couple of points and baiting a reversal with block or EX Oroshi.
People need to go play 3s no character except chun can interrupt karakusa after hayate and she only can because her jab is 2 frames. But with an OS karakusa you can reduce the odds of that working significantly.
Is EX hayate still advantage on block?
i dont even know if she finishes positive at all in ssfiv after a hayate, can anyone see from the youtube vids? i think kara ex hayate will beat everything except armour breakers and unthrowable moves though, after a hayate.
If the information from the Fei Long video is still accurate, then you are at least +2 on hit after hayate. Basis: Makoto started doing a move after Hayate, and on the third frame, the “combo” text started to appear on Fei Long’s side which means that he left hitstun.
It’s possible that Makoto’s post-hayate attack wasn’t input on the first possible frame, in which case it could theoretically be +3.
If it were +4 Makoto would have an infinite.
It’s kind of impossible to tell specific information like that from Youtube videos, but circumstantial evidence does suggest it’s still true if only because in one of Mullah’s videos, her f+MP traded with an enemy jab after Hayate.
mullah good stuff with the makoto… im not as bummed about her after watching some of your matches.
Hey Mullah,
Got a question for you. After a Focus crumple I see a lot of people follow up with either a standing heavy hayate or a MP > hayate. I am not to familiar with frame data or with damage values, but would it be advantageous to throw in the HP command normal after a crumple instead? It seems to do massive damage and stun, though I don’t know for sure.
man looks like the ex over head has alot of invulnerability on it.
tylerzd
4490
Sure. Whichever option comes out ahead in the numbers would be the way to go. The full HP*3 chain appears to do about 200, so damage between that and the usual hp xx hp hayate would be similar. Another possible advantage to using the command chain is less pushback in comparison to on-hit hayate.
edit— just took a look at some video. HP*3 has some pretty significant pushback. So, verdict will come down to damage/stun numbers.
Ibuki can do it in 3S too because her s.LP is 2 frames also.
If Makoto isn’t +3 she isn’t going to have any reliable mixup and its really sad as just mashing jab is going to give her fits. Gonna try to get her to be something though, as long as I have kara’s I’m imagining a very scary anti-air game from makoto though, like you don’t jump unless she’s knocked down.
Really her only hope is to bait a lot ugh … I’ve been playing melty blood so much recently and that’s totally a game that if your mid-tier you have to bait … bait … bait. … bait … bait … frametrap … bait … bait …ugh …
lol, didn’t know ibuki’s was 2 frame never had an ibuki do that to me : P
What Ken’s frame advantage on his hurricane kick?
baiting is such a shitty strategy. when your best option is to literally do nothing and hope they press a button you have a real problem, because plenty of characters aren’t going to have to play those odds against you on their offense.
not to mention it’s just no fucking fun.
Yeah Ibuki had real nasty block strings with her 2 frame s.LP that was plus 6 frames on hit or block. Put Urien in the corner with Ibuki and he gets to sit and block for a while unless he gets a perfect timed parry, red parry or throw in.
lk -5, mk 0, hk -1, ex +1
Well then, not knowing Makoto’s frame numbers I’d just loosely compare comboing into hayate like comboing into hurricane kick for Ken, except the pushback will be futher.
Unless you FADC it.
hp hayate is the way to go although i think the lighter hayate might put you more positive on hit, i dunno though, the reason i usually do hpx jab hayate is just cos its what i chose to do, no real reason.
Was bored, so I swapped out the art/buttons on my Xbox Mahvel TE today.
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5653/p4120018.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6462/p4120017.jpg
Quality artwork of Makoto is really hard to find. Even had to alter the colors and add to a couple parts of the stock because of where it cut out.
Anyone know who the original artist is?
