SSF4 Guile Match-up Thread: Typhoon < Sonic Boom < Vortex

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
201

at the high skill levels, seth beats guile for fun imo.

yea, you can learn how to block all his mixups…then he’ll just start tick 360ing you. it’s not that simple.

one thing that top seth’s like to do is hit you with a block string that makes you block low, then while you’'re still in crouch block they’ll go for a low (cammy like) crossup divekick (jumping down hk). now from here they can go into another mixup or 360. this is nearly impossible to anti air with cr.hp in this situation regardless of if you know it’s coming or not, plus the animation is so quick that you don’t have very much time to react.

it’s the little things like this that only the very top seth players do. unfortunately/fortunately for me, i’ve run into 2 or 3 of the best you can find on psn.

also, i’m pretty sure he has air normals that beat air throw. i remember j.mp as something i ended up having to use a lot in this match.

202

I directly asked Kevin Landon for his info on the guile vs. adon matchup a while ago because I was(still am) struggling with it. Here’s what he had to say about it, hopefully he doesn’t mind me posting about it.

[Quote]

  • Adon
    Adon is one of the annoying matches to a degree. He can fight from mid-range using great normals and his multi-angled jaguar kicks.

In order to take advantage of Adon’s weaknesses, you need to differentiate between his normal jaguar kick and his air jaguar kick. I’ll hold on to that statement. If you have no Adon experience, then that’s not too much of a problem. Whenever you see him leap off of the ground, attempt to air throw him. This will stop him from jumping at you or trying unsafe jaguar kicks. Keep sonic booms on the screen and wait for him to react so that you can choose an option to punish him. Try and keep him far to mid range. Do not let him knock you down. His ambiguous cross-ups are very annoying for Guile to deal with and we all know if Guile has any weakness, it’s dealing with cross-ups. If you do get knocked down and Adon goes for cross-ups, blocking and/or focusing and dashing out are you only options. Even after blocking you’re still in a bad situation as now you have to decide whether he is going to a) cross-up again and repeat, b) string you into a tick throw c) neutral jump roundhouse for an instant overhead if you have little life left or d) neutral jump forward kick into air jaguar kick into a combo.

Of course crouch teching is important for options a and b. If he goes for the cross-up again and you crouch tech, you’ll be safe to block afterward. The better thing to do would be to jump and air throw him before he goes for the cross-up but the timing is strict. If he goes for a string, you will nullify any tick throw attempts. The scariest option to deal with is the instant overhead. If you’ve no life to take another hit, smart Adon players will go for this option. You need to know if you’re fighting a great player or a good player because instant overheads like this are almost a complete guess. Option D is the more risky “I want to take more damage while I confuse my opponent” option. Adon will rarely go for this because it takes good execution to pull off. Maybe high level Adon players like Gamerbee will go for this option if he thinks that his opponent doesn’t have good defense.

Mid range is a good place to be but be careful of his Ex Jaguar Kick. It punishes your sonic boom on sight and you will get knocked down. While playing mid range, hold your position (down back) and rarely throw booms. Other than that, use cr.forward to keep Adon away from close. If he jumps, rh. flash kick is a great option because it can hit him out of jaguar kick while getting a trade for a follow-up Ex sonic boom or sonic hurricane combo if your ultra is ready. If Adon chooses ultra 1 (Jaguar Revolver) he’s almost 99% looking to punish a sonic boom from almost full screen similar to Chun-Li. This is where it gets tricky because you have to find a good position to play the match now. You don’t want to throw a boom and you definitely do not want him close to you. You can stay away from him and do nothing, you can take the fight closer and use back fist and st. fierce to fight him on the ground. Try not to use st. roundhouse (advancing kick) because it has start-up and he can ex jaguar kick and knock you down. Jaguar tooth (Off the wall kick) isn’t much of a problem in this match except to bait your flash kick. If he does this for whatever reason, just jump back roundhouse. If he lands near you roundhouse will nail him and you can combo him. If he lands far away, just quickly throw a boom. That is basically the Adon V Guile match.

[/Quote]

After reading this I found myself trying to air throw is jaguar kick attempts because they do have startup. This means you have to get closer than I feel comfortable with against Adon. So I’d try to punish his forward progress attempts with spinning backfist at far range, air throw him at medium when he’d attempt jaguar kick. Try and cross him up as well(laughable) and bait the upwards jaguar kick and punish.

Its interesting that he says to punish the off the wall kicks with a jump back roundhouse and not flash kick. I know I would use this strategy sometimes and suffer dearly if I whiffed the flash kick against Adon.

203

To counter Adon Wall Dive kick, just use neutral Medium kick, dont even bother trying to flash kick him, not worth the risk of getting whiff punished.

204

http://shoryuken.com/f241/***-misconceptions-sf4-game-system-mechanics-great-read-***-218447/

So, according to the trip guard section of this thread, if you empty jump, you are able to attack the instant you hit the ground. Does this mean that you can FK Abel’s trying to catch you with U2 during your landing frames if you empty jump?

I ask this question because a friend of mine has been catching me with Abel’s U2 during the landing frames after I jump; I started empty jumping, getting a down charge in mid-air during Abel’s Ultra freeze, then trying to FK as soon as I hit the ground to stop his U2 from catching me. I’d go into the lab and test this but, I’m not exactly sure how to test out this particular situation by myself.

205

Be guile, set abel to dummy, restart the round, jump as guile as soon as the round starts (literally just hold up forward) and immediately set abel to record. Use his ultra to catch guile as he’s landing. Then set him to replay, restart the round, and just play as guile under same conditions: hold UF as the round starts, start charging as soon as you jump, see what happens.

Overall, yeah, you should be able to do this.

206

To reiterate, FADC a flachkick and dashing backwards against fei-long can still leave you slightly open… When I played a 3 game set against Mago he did the rekka combo immediately after and I still got hit. That is how good the Japs are in reading the play. MY initial tactics worked earlier in the sets I played and I tried to change things up at times, but I was impressed at how Mago adjusted and adapted so quickly.

Whats more he never needed to use his Ultra at all…Hell, once he hit confirmed a C LK or C LP he chained the rekka combos and other stuff consistently, My friend recorded 2 matches on the iphone, mago’s execution was clean and surgical

207

Guile’s -3 after FK > FADC forward and -10 after FK > FADC backwards. Some characters can punish that backdash.

208

Hmm, never knew that. I know frame data isn’t everything when it comes to looking for different ways to punish things, combos, etc. but since Guile is -10 off a FK FADC backdash, can he get hit by stuff like reversal Super / U1 from Chun, Super / U1 from Viper, or Super from Guile? Going to need to go into the lab. Seems like as Super progresses, FK FADC seems less and less like a “safe” option.

209

On the topic of what moves punish a backdashed FADC flashkick, here is a list of the moves that punish the FK > FADC backwards. (As gilley pointed out Guile is left at -10 after).

  • Ryu - HP Super
  • Fei-Long - Rekka combo
  • Dudley - Ultra 1
  • Akuma - Ultra 1.
  • El Fuerte - Ultra 2.
  • Abel - Ultra 2.
  • Chun Li - Super

These are just a handful of moves that you can get punished with. I guess if you do not overuse the FADC flashkick then you might be ok.

210

Basically any move that has a startup of less than 10 frames and reaches forward.

211

are you sure it’s -3? is there a way to calculate this with dash frames and frame data?

my xbox is broken but it would be easy to test with a 3 frame reversal srk; i thought it was -2.

212

Pretty sure it’s not safe to FADC forward without the risk of getting SRKd if they react fast enough

213

I’m little worried about the nerfs Guile got. My gut feeling is that his hard matchups will be much harder in the Arcade Version. Also Sagat and Ryu players will be relieved somewhat…

Things aren’t looking good in the arcade version but we’ll see over the coming months to see the extent of Guiles nerfs.

Slinkun, we need your words of wisdom!

214

Daigo mentions Guile a couple of times in his AE interview. In short:

he places him at upper-mid tier
he’ll use Guile as a secondary

I think overall, the OG folk won’t have an issue and we’ll just need to play some match ups a little more vanilla than we do now.

215

Just wanted to add some stuff for the Dee Jay matchup. The only ways he can really get in on the ground is either sliding with cr.HK under booms or EX sobat to punish sonic booms. If you see Dee Jay walking forward into slide range you can easily cr.MK him to stuff his slide on startup. He can’t really do much about this.

You can do fine without throwing EX booms so saving meter for super can be nice to punish all of Dee Jay’s unsafe shit on block (every version of sobat).

His jumping LK knee move stuffs flashkicks but is completely free to air throw. His other typical jump-in normals can be beaten by the usual anti-airs (not sure about flashkick though).

It’s just a typical lame fight and there’s really never any need to jump in on him. This fight might get a little harder in AE but I’m kinda doubting it.

216

This is my personal experience with Rose, so take it with a huge grain of salt. Online has been full of Rose lately, but gradually this match has gotten better.

For one, against Rose, RTSD. You’re better off rushing her down than laming her out. She wins the lame game. Soul absorbs and soul reflects give her a boatload of meter. And you don’t want to deal with a Rose with a lot of meter. The best strat I learn is to stay around mid range, preferably outside of slide range. This way random slides can be beat my cr.mk and it will force her to jump. st.HP is good for her jump ins as well as early cr.HP.

I try to focus backdash slides alot, but sometimes she can tag you with soul spiral. My goal in this match is to back her up into the corner. I pretty much walk her down, match her soul sparks when I can, and neutral jump them. Having an EX sonic boom in the pocket works too in the zoning war. If Rose back dash a lot, getting her to the corner is easy (tons or Rose players abuse her backdash). Rose will generally try to jump at you, slide or soul spiral to regain and distance she lose from backdashing. It’s a guess on her part (at least partially). Either stay in a defensive crouch and try to punish anything she does on reaction, or neutral jump (way more risky IMO, but has really good rewards).

Once in the corner, then the fun can begin. you can pretty much take her on a trip to frame trap city. Rose wakeup outside of U2 is garbage, so take as much free damage as you can. When she has meter, sit outside of her sweep range and be careful. Some Rose’s will try to wakeup soul spiral, but it’s a free as hell punish on block. My personal strat when she gets U2, haul ass out of the corner. If she jumps FK her. Or just force her to run into you and block her orbs. Of cource cr.mk works if you can find an opening.

Take advantage if her low health in this matchup. If you find yourself on the receiving end of her pressure, just block. DO NOT CROUCH TECH. Rose has frametraps for days. Trying to crouch tech her will make an unhappy Guile.

In my personal opinion, this match is 5-5.  Rose takes away some crucial elements of Guile's game, but if Guile has smart spacing, he can back Rose into the corner.  This is also one of the few matches where Guile's pressure is very reliable.   Just be smart in your offense and watch out for u2.  In an ideal situation in this match, you want to have her close to the corner before she activate u2.  Her u2 is going to force you to lose some ground (or take a lot of damage), so make sure you don't back yourself into a corner trying to get away from her.

Airthrows, st.hp, and early cr.hps are so good for her AAs. Remember to keep her honest at all cost, and don’t jump at her much unless you see a badly spaced fireball from her end. Her AA game is annoying, including AA slides.

217

I have very little experience with a lot of high-level play from the newer characters, so I’m catching up on a lot of experience now. =) What’s nice about AE rose is that U2 isn’t invincible anymore on wakeup… it will just get stuffed if you do a meaty. I think she builds less meter too. I whored meaty UDK A LOT against her… but her j.hp is still giving me fits… I can’t see to get a clean hit when she does it from further away. Best I normally get is a s.hp trade. S.mk seems to trade, s.mp gets stuffed, df.hk gets REALLY stuffed. Either way, fun matchup. Played a good Rose who had 12,000 BP for quite a few sets. (I’m at 12,000 now too =))

Anywho, AE matchups! Yun and Yang at first just seemed like watered down Rufusses, but they can be pretty scary up close. The nice thing is, is that they have a lot of trouble getting in on Guile. It seems like dive kicks widen their hitbox enough to where dive-kicking over booms is difficult, and not eating a backfist AA is even harder. Up close, their divekicks are a bit different than Rufus. They seems to have way more priority… I can’t seem to beat them with normal AA’s very easily. However, unlike Rufus, they don’t have a stupid j.hk, so jump back air throw of jump back fierce seems a pretty solid escape. Even better is that you can block them low, so storing a flashkick is very solid.

Adon is a hard matchup. Sheesh. Seems like he’s hard to outpoke, hard to boom, hard to AA, and he’s got a fast walk speed and all armor breaking specials to top it off. the Adon’s I’ve been playing almost never Jaguar Tooth (off the wall) and pretty much just rely of Jag kicks over close range booms. I’ve had some luck by doing random s.hp’s to hit him out of it, but if I do it too much it seems easy for him to catch on and counter-poke with his s.hk. I was thinking that throwing out random s.mp’s at mid-range might be an effective way to counter jag kicks, while recovering fast enough to not be hit out of recovery. Anyone fiddled around with something like that?

Oh, also, AE feels SUPER balanced. I have no idea what the hell the tier list could possibly look like right now. I haven’t encountered anything that strikes me as stupid over powered or stupid under powered. Everything feels really solid and I’m having a lot of fun playing matchups I used to hate. Ryu is like, my favorite match to play now. They better release a DLC. Not doing so would be the stupidest thing ever.

218

Im a Bison who lives in Philly, anyone want to play? I need the Guile xp (as painful as it may be) but I should be able to put up a good fight. If anyone lives in the east coast and plays on XBL, let me know.

219

Agreed regarding Adon; got whopped by a very average Adon yesterday. Ibuki gave me the mix-up blues too. Frothing for an AE release on console - I just hope they get to a point where arcade and console are the same game.

220

yun is obvious top tier. there was no character like that in super. yun started bodying people the first day, and he has a million tools to explore. i think guile might be able to zone him, but it’s too early for me to say. i cant see yun dropping out of top 2-3 without nerfs.

against adon i almost never sonic boom. i use a lot of s.fierce, c.fierce, and back hand. air throw is good when you’re in close proximity (like backhand range) outside of that i dont like it very much. neutral jump can be useful if adon is being overly aggressive with jaguar kick.

i definitely feel adon beats guile.