you can mantis ultra 1 his teleports if he does any grounded version, and you can mantis ultra 1 the instant jump back fierce aka yoga sniper. even if it hits you
I really need practice. I got raped by an Abel. I don’t know how to fight him. All he was doing was 50/50 mixups. =\
backdash after you block that step kick. only thing he has that punnishes back dash is a second foward dash into a tornado throw.
you take away a lot of his 50/50 options if he has to foward dash after you. his other options after a step kick all cover a couple different things. his foward dash only covers your backdash option, and he really has to take a big risk by guessing with it
I mean, this guy was all over me. Everytime I backdashed he followed with a TT. When I tried to jump, his HP hit me before I left the ground. Maybe I was just too predictable, but I literally couldn’t move.
Was it after knockdown, or was it after blocking step kick? Gen’s reversal fierce hands can stuff everything abel’s going to try save EX TT/EX roll/random Ultra after blocking step kick. After knockdown… well, I think he guessed right on what you were going to do several times, and you know that the fragile senior can’t take too many hits.
Step kick is +1 on block 
Errrr… Ok, I thought it was even. I wonder why I could reversal out HP hands on most things he did then. Maybe the Abel guy just didn’t press a 4-frame normal at the exact timing every time?
We had a similar convo in the Boxer matchup thread about what to do out of abels step kick. Reversal Hands should beat all of his other options, but it might trade with st.fp (4 frames) and give him the CH. [C] cr.mk **might **avoid the st.fp all together but it’s slow.
HNIC mike’s suggestion to backdash is best. Backdash beats most of his options except dash forward + something sub 10 frames and a delayed cod I believe. Event hubs doesn’t discern a difference between mantis and crane forward/backdash. I know for sure theres a difference in forward dash but is this true for backdash too?
Walk speed and dash comparison for Super Street Fighter 4 : EventHubs.com
backdashing should be used sparingly though, atleast when you’re actually fighting a keen player (usually not found online lol). His U1 can catch you in a backdash if you get too predictable, and his CoD catches your backdash aswell (afaik it only hits once or twice, not fully connect).
I didn’t know there was a difference of dashes between his mantis and crane stance.
Theoretically, if HP hands trade with Abel’s s.HP, it should give you +7 frame advantage thanks to hands’ huge hitstun (hands should give you 28 frames of hitstun, while Abel’s HP should have 21 frames). I just wonder if any follow-up is possible cuz I never traded before, and if you can’t, then the trade is hugely in Abel’s favor.
And agreed with backdash being the best option. If he wants to punish it he needs to risk himself trying to damage you (jump, dash, etc.) or simply block and wait.
There is no difference in the dash between mantis/crane.
The “best” option is the one that the abel player isn’t expecting.
Test the hands trading with abel yourself. Record abel sucessfully hitting the step kick to st.hp link, then playback, reversal hands with gen, try to link st.mk or cr.hp afterwards. As those are the two moves most likely to hit with pushback taken into account or damage if the pushback isn’t too bad. I’d do it myself right now as it’d be easy but my roommate is an asshole who sleeps in the living room and doesn’t wake up till 2 so i have to wait to play or do anything.
AA CoD can juggle into ultra 1 (character specific) and can be FADC into Ultra 1 for all characters (an always connects in the corner if done correctly). (fyi)
I don’t have access to a console atm (at work), but I do recall there being a significant speed difference between the crane/mantis forward dash.
**Edit: no difference in dashes >_<
I certainly will test hands trading HP, on Friday. I simply asked cuz I couldn’t wait that long. But then again I might be able to get a hold of PS3 for a minute after school, and if I do, I’ll test it without doubt.
I like how you assume I didn’t know that. Oh and fyi, you can’t fadc into ultra, it’s fadc c.hp ultra.
Didn’t assume, just noted. I know that more people than the 10-12 people who post read the forums; i noted it for the lurkers. I actually meant naked anti-air cod juggle into ultra, as in he hits you while you’re in the air, not if you’re grounded.
Which is character specific, after that you talked about the grounded one without mentioning c.hp in between, just saying it for the lurkers heh.
No he was still talking about the AA one…either way it’s not really that big a deal. Do we need to list the whole combo? the point of the matter is that you’ll still probably eat Ultra.
Ehm, why/how the hell would you FADC out of the initial CoD juggle (which would lead to an ultra anyway)?
because fadcing works on more characters apparently
obviously predictability would be the worst thing you could do. my point was more on the basis that if you have to pick an escape, backdash would be the best option. by no means is it a cure all, but abel has to take extreme unsafe options if he wants to stop you from doing it, thus you can use that to your advantage the next time you end up in the same 50/50.
this info isnt even from me tho. i lurk the abel forums from time to time, and a few of their higher level players were discussing how characters with long range back dashes really give them problems when they go for the mixups
EX TT would eat through hands BTW