Bingo!
Once you get the timing, you will get rid of that ugly mash :wgrin:
I usually make a semi-quick transition to SRK right after I do the LK Tatsu motion.
Regular dive kick can catch guys who block low and who are expecting DF dive kicks, it can play a mix-up game with those expecting crossups aswell.
Be careful against grapplers, you will eat a command grab if you’re not careful.
hey thanks. But what do you do when he just rolls away on wakeup? I mean the guy i was playing was pretty good and he wouldnt just roll away randomly. Every time he saw me going for a late palm or throw or df kick or even a crossup sometimes he would just roll away resetting the match. Is there an os grab for this or what? Fyi he usually uses ex roll so demoning him would have to be super fast, not sure if i can pull that off or if demon can even catch.
also random question, didnt know where to post this. IS there any difference at all between lk mk or hk AIR tatsu? I know hk does more dmg so i use that more than lk, but is there a timing difference or something of the sort depending on which you use? I couldnt really tell.
I don’t have a lot, but I find fs.hp incredibly useful against the fat bastard. It stuffs his aerial options clean INCLUDING dive kick. Learn the timing and spacing required and you’ll find that you have a great asset in this match-up which doubles as a very effective zoning tool also.
If you’re feeling ballsy, you can anticipate his over-eagerness to jump (due to that j.hk juggle) and beat him senseless with a preemptive j.hp. Baiting out Ex messiah kicks also helps given how easy it is for him to reversal with it from a string. This can lead to a good punish situation for you or just plain helps him lose meter. If you manage to invoke doubt in him reversalling strings you might be able to establish grounds for otherwise risky tick throws also.
Proper usage of option select c.MP/tech has helped me deal with his low dive kick dive pressure. The way most rufus’ will try to beat that is a regular jump or a higher dive kick, both of which can be SRKed easily. I’m sure you knew that though.
Other than that just don’t let him meet you in the air and as soon as you see he has no meter you RUSH THAT SHIT DOWN.
All I got. Comes down to a lot of guessing games IMO.
yeah…my problem is once he’s in…keeping him out is a little bit of a chore but once he gets in rufus actually has a way of beating the cMP tech opselect that leads to a GT and later to pain…I’ve been using the safe jump HP->ex dP opselect on him and doing much better against his wake up. I’ll probably use cammy in this match-up since her opselects lead to ultra and she can rush his shit down.
A few questions:
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Is throwing a jab air hadou on wake-up, and then following with DF Throw a common setup? Basically the enemy blocks the fireball, you then throw. I’ve been playing around with it but I’m not sure if I should be using it at all.
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I’m trying to get the basics down for Akuma, I think that way I’ll be able to learn him fastest. Am I missing anything here:
-know air hadou distances
-cr. jab (3) > cr. mk > FB
-cr. lk > tatsu > SRK
-st.fp > tatsu > SRK
-vortex
-using st. rh and sweep
-knowing how to teleport as an evasive move
Am I missing anything? Also, just to confirm: the vortex is using an J. RH Tatsu and then following with sweep on the juggle? And I am assuming an untechable knockdown is one which does not allow the enemy to do a quick wake-up??? Thanks bros.
Vortex is just the name for Akumas wakeup pressure game. It doesn’t pertain to one move in general.
Id consider the basics for akuma to be
lk tatsu, sweep
s.lp(f), sweep [for characters that cannot be tatsu, swept.]
c.lp x3 > bnb
c.lk, c.lp x2 > bnb
punish with hp > bnb
AA Ultra demon
demon flip mixup game
spacing for cross up tatsu and meaty regular dive kick
Learning that stuff will take you a far way.
Great, and what about the untechable knockdown? What is it? Thanks man.
How do you guys deal with Guy and his flip throw grab (190-200 dmg)? Can you use c.HP to anti air it reliably?
An untechable knockdown is exactly what you said yourself: a knockdown that doesn’t allow the opponent to perform a quick wake-up. Just to name a few, you gain untechable knockdowns from a sweep, throw, demonflip>throw, demonflip>palm and both your super and ultra. I actually think that’s all of 'em, but correct me if I’m wrong.
well you can df grab him out of his roll…you just gotta time it right. If he’s roll happy you can also do df palm and grab as soon as you land.
Of course if you get predictable you won’t go anywhwere, but akuma should have the edge in this matchup, even without the df throw option selects that are impossible in Super.
What is the best option to deal with tech throw mashers as akuma? Is it Ex-tatsu? Does it always beat c.short?
Does Akuma’s j.hk~hard tatsu OS deal with all of bison’s options on wake up? I just want to make sure it’s me messing it up sometimes. I don’t have too much success dealing with his ex psycho crusher, but sometimes Akuma tatsus right through it. What about for ex scissor kicks?
Fuck, is it just me or is Bison such a stupid fucking matchup for Akuma. You get destroyed up close and what the fuck do you do against the c.lk mashing ones? Today this Bison just mashed (or was turboing) c.lk every single fucking time i was near him. Miss a link? Eat a c.lk > scissors. Can’t wake up grab most of the time because c.lk rapes me. I’m afraid to wake up srk because I’ll eat a headstomp. I always safejumped when he had meter, OS srk’d his wakeup ex headstomps, but this guy just did them at random, non ex will still rape or trade with my srk. He spammed devil reverse all over the place, i demoned some of them but its rare, i focus raped some of the ones that were near me but I am scared to do that too because he wouldn’t finish the reverse and just land right next to me and i get grabbed.
What the fuck.
I have a lot of difficulty vs Bison as well, his new ultra only made the matchup worse, a lot of it is because I don’t fight good Bisons regularly, so someone please correct me if I said anything wrong:
I think j.hk OS lp SRK or EX SRK is a better option than tatsu, I use tatsu OS if the Bison player is teleport happy (which is rare since he has better escape options when he has meter), the SRK should be able to beat EX SK, EX DR, EX PC but EX head stomp will whiff, I’m not sure if he’ll recover fast enough to punish a lp SRK or EX SRK.
If I know a Bison player will use EX PC on wakeup and I have ultra meter, after a knockdown I df palm into demon, it’ll catch their startup if timed correctly. Also, a correctly timed DF dive kick should beat it clean as well, I still haven’t got the timing down though.
I’m pretty sure you can beat mashing by using frame traps (such as cr.mp, cr.mp then sweep when you got the counter hit you were looking for). Shouldn’t a correctly timed tick throw after cr. jab let you grab Bison out of his cr. lk’s startup as well?
From what I remember when I was in training mode testing stuff against Bison’s wakeup, a meaty j. HK OS lp SRK will beat EX Devil’s Reverse, but EX Headstomp will whiff. Also, as far as I know, a normal headstomp has no invincibility frames, so a meaty j. hk should beat it clean. As for those Bisons who really like to head stomp, devil reverse and empty devil reverse into grabs, I just walk backwards and sweep him when he lands infront of me, you can punish whiffed headstomps much harder, but since there’s no way to know which version he did and empty devil reverse recovers pretty fast, I just go for the sweep just as they land. If they’re devil reverse happy and actually are stupid enough to try and hit you with it, I just cr. mk into ex tatsu as they’re coming at me, it’ll lower your hitbox to avoid their hit and give them a nice punish.
As for wakeup SRK, I really don’t think that’ll ever be a good idea unless he’s close to you and you have meter to FADC, because Bisons will look for those and punish with cr.mp/cr.mk xx HK SK, which will really hurt Akuma and push you in the corner where Bison loves to be.
Thanks.
What are you guys doing to deal with Honda on wake up? I am confused as to how to fight him on his wake up. This is the main source of my problems in this match. EX Headbutt and normal headbutt are both invincible on start up right? So what to do? They both auto correct, too.
Same question for Cammy’s wake up. Her DP seems to own all of akuma’s options.
Can’t you do a demon flip kick to stuff his ex headbutts? I do it all the time but it has to look like a cross-up so sometimes it will dodge the headbutt or stuff it and then you can combo after it.
was messing around with option selects the other day on bisons wakeup, and this is what i got.
OS hk tatsu: beats ex pc, beats teleport, beats backdash, ex headstomp and DR whiff
OS Hp shoryu: beats ex pc, beats backdash, i think it hits ex devil reverse, whiffs on ex headstomp and he can punish you, and teleport beats it.
OS lp shoryu: TRADES with ex pc, beats backdash, hits ex devil reverse, ex headstomp whiffs and you can punish, teleport not sure who recovers first.
AND for os demon, i didnt test it very much, but it seems like with the buffed psycho crusher, os demon doesnt beat ex psyco crusher anymore.