I’ll post some tips against Dan when I get home, so reserved I guess.
no cody ? 
No not yet man sorry
sall good. wonder if these match ups will change in 2012
I can contribute write-ups for the Fei and Rose matchup because I have a fair amount of experience playing as and against them.
I’m still really struggling with a few matchups myself, namely Zangief and Sagat. Any advice is much appreciated.
With Zangief I try to avoid him, but I find that most Zangief players will try to corner you as much as they can, and I just can’t seem to find a way out (since tatsu out doesn’t work anymore). I try a zoning game, but they just lariat/jump/green first through everything of mine and I get rocked after.
Also with Sagat, I just can’t find an opening on him. Far away he beats me with his zoning game (although I try my best to FA/jump over his tigershots, I can’t ever make them come to me), and close up Sagat absolutely rocks me as well. I’ve tried blocking most of his stuff when its close range, but the throw damage does add up too. Mid range I’m ok, but I still feel like sagat has the upperhand since his normals have such huge range.
Any tips?
I have a good zangief right up on here,but make sure you are throwing safe fireballs and anti airing him consistently.For Sagat you basically HAVE to get him in the corner.He has no options in the corner.you can just c.MK at max range then jab a few times,it will stuff almost everything.So basically every time he walks back,you walk forward so you gain that ground.
I faced a solid Fei-Long just now, but he managed to get me with tons of randomness. All of his pokes, whenever they were thrown, would beat out my cr.mk. I NEVER out-poked him. Zoning? Yeah, not really. My thought-process the whole match was he’s gonna get in, it is just a matter of when. I think this is the type of matchup that illustrates the lack of balance between zoning and rushdown in the SF4 engine.
Hell, Fei can even rekka you after a cr.mk xx hadou string if he’s fast enough. Even if it doesn’t hit he’ll still be within his comfort zone again, just chipping away with safe rekkas until a big opportunity opens up.
For fei you can ounis ome blocked rekkas with sweep,jab beats them out,but do NOT try to beat rekka with c.MK.Also you cant be punished after c.MK xx Fireball to my knowledge,I think you recover too fast.It is a hard matchup,6:4,some even say 7:3 in Fei-Longs favor.Also doing neutral jump MK is good against him at mid range.
My thoughts on the Fei matchup.
Spoiler
Ryu v. Fei
4:6 Ryu
The Mid to Far Range Game
As Ryu you want to stay at a range where you can throw fireballs safely and react to Chicken Wing. Fireballs will not keep Fei out for long nor does he have to go in if he has a life lead. He can simply FA and backdash them to build Ultra. Watch out when Fei has meter because he can EX CW through fireballs. If he hits, you’re going to eat a cl. HP xx Rekka into the corner. If you block the EX Chicken Wing, he’s perfectly safe and if he has 2 bar, you’re going to have to play the stupid 50/50 dp-or-throw guessing game. Also, U2 is a great punish for CW. Land it and you win the moral victory. Just saying.
Dealing with Rekkas
Use neutral jump strong and forward to punish Rekkas. Don’t get neutral jump happy, just use it when you expect him to throw out those Rekkas. You won’t get an astounding punish but it will put Fei on notice and make him think twice about throwing out Rekkas from too far away. You can also used whiffed jabs to stuff Rekkas though that is slightly more risky.
Max-ranged first and second hit LP Rekkas are safe from everything except reversal super against the latter. Pay attention to the spacing when deciding what and how to punish. Be careful about pushing buttons too early because Fei can always frame trap you with 2nd or 3rd hit Rekkas.
Always be careful about walking forward in this matchup if you’re anywhere in Rekka range. Take a step forward and block.
FA is a risky tool to use in this matchup but nonetheless you should throw it out there so your opponent has to think about it when throwing out Rekkas. Since Ryu’s backdash is ass, if you’re just throwing it out randomly, Fei can walk up and Rekka you when you backdash at closer ranges. He can also do a 2nd Rekka to knock you out of your FA if you did the focus late. Throw it out there to see how Fei reacts and see if he knows how to punish them properly. If he doesn’t, abuse it. If he can indeed punish you for it, use it only when you’re sure you can land the crumple. Fei can still hit you after a close-ranged lvl. 1 focus when you backdash. Yes, Rekkas are that stupid good and Ryu’s backdash is just that ass.
The Footsies Game
Don’t whiff anything. I mean it. Fei is a footsies monster and he will shit all over your face if you whiff anything. Crouching forward can be whiff-punished by Fei’s choice of cr. MP, cr. HP, or LP Rekka. Sweep can be punished on block from any distance by reversal LP Rekkas (EX Rekkas for max distance). Again, throw out the sweep to see if your opponent knows how to deal with it. Fei can punish it for sure, key word being “can”.
Being in the corner makes the footsies game thrice as hard to play. You will have the urge to stick out crouching forward after a blocked LP Rekka. Please don’t do that. Fei can simply walk back and do another LP Rekka to punish you for the whiff. You have to play extremely patient when Fei puts you in the corner. If he throws out a max-ranged cr. MP at you, expect a LP Rekka. Cr. MP is +2 on block and LP Rekka is 7f startup. Do not jump after a cr. MP because he will hit you out of it. If you’re expecting him to throw out that LP Rekka and you’re feeling gutsy, you can sweep him. Again, that is very risky and not something to do unless you are supremely confident in your read. Your best bet is to block, inch forward, and should Fei try and jump in, punish it. Do not jump because he’ll get an easy Flame Kicks FADC HK CW on you.
At the LP Rekka range Fei can apply tremendous pressure but he can’t quite crack-open downback. Most of the damage he’ll be dealing at that range is damage you give to him, mainly through whiffs. Keep an eye out for his overhead. It doesn’t do a ton of damage (60, soon to be buffed to 70 in 2012) and its speed is average (18f) but it does go over lows like Ryu’s crouching forward. Its also +1 on hit so do not push buttons afterwards. Push buttons and you’ll either eat a CH cr. MP linked into LP Rekkas or a Flame Kick FADC into Chicken Wing if Fei has the meter. As a Fei player, this shit has won me more rounds than I can count. Don’t. Push. Buttons.
Dealing with Fei’s Mixup
Fei isn’t a mixup monster but he nonetheless has very strong options that if he is creative with, can blow you up. He’s got solid frame traps, DP FADC, the ridiculous aforementioned overhead, ambiguous corner crossups, and a cancellable command grab.
Let’s talk frame traps first. Cl. MP gives Fei an incredible amount of frame advantage on block or hit (+3/+7 respectively). Fortunately, there is a significant amount of pushback on it so he will not be in range to throw you immediately. If you see him edge forward, be ready to tech. If he stays put, don’t press anything. A smarter Fei will go for cr. LK -> cl. MP instead. Fortunately for you, there’s a significant 4f gap in that link so you can actually throw Fei right out of cl. MP if he doesn’t do it frame-perfect. Still, Fei does have even more damaging cr. LK -> cl. HP which is a 3f gap so watch out for that. Watch out for walk up in cl. HP xx EX Rekka which is completely safe on block. Generally Fei doesn’t have any reason to do a jump-in cl. HP xx EX Rekka but if he walks in, he can bait and punish a throw attempt. Cr. MP is another good frame-trapping normal for Fei though unless he can confirm that CH into LP Rekkas, he won’t be getting much damage off of it.
Dealing with DP FADC is fairly straightforward. Unless you’re down to your last few pixels of health, always take the throw. Let Fei burn the meter. Since Flame Kicks have limited range, you don’t have to worry about jab jab or short short DP FADC as you would have to with a shoto. The DP FADC generally comes on the first hit after a jump in. Again, don’t press buttons and always watch your opponent’s meter.
Ambiguous crossups are always hard to block but knowing the setups should make things easier for you. Fei can crossup with jumping strong in the corner and midscreen if he spaces it correct. Generally you wont’ have to worry about it outside the corner. Watch out if he whiffs normal after throwing you into the corner because he’s probably setting up the crossup jumping strong. I’d actually advise you to pay attention more to his midscreen mixups. Empty jump low throws off a lot of people in my experience. After a midscreen forward throw, if Fei jumps immediately, he’s going for the crossup low. If he takes a slight step back then jumps, he’s going for the normal empty jump low. If he takes a slight step back, pauses, then jumps, it’s a standard jump in. Slight pause then direct jump is a standard crossup. You can throw Fei out of the empty jump lows if he times them incorrectly or is not doing the crouch-tech option select. Again, watch out for his meter because he can mix the empty jump-lows with empty jump DP FADC which would blow up your throw attempts.
Fei’s command grab is incredibly slow (14 for normal versions, 12 for EX) compared to say Yun and Yang’s (theirs are twice as fast) but they have some stupid property enabling them to be cancelled into. This means walk up command grab is less of a threat because you have forever to neutral jump it but on the other hand, jump-in st. LP xx EX Command Grab becomes a huge threat. There’s no hard counter to this. Be vigilant. Mash dp if you have to. Smart opponents will bait your dp out then command throw you when think they’ve conditioned you to press dp. Defy them and mash moar dp.
General Tips
· Do not throw fireballs at close-to-midrange (after sweep or throw) on Fei’s wake up if he has meter. You will eat EX CW and a fat combo for your troubles. If he has U1 stocked, get ready to lose almost half of your health.
· Throw out safe fireballs or whiff standing short to bait out the EX CW and make Fei waste meter. It doesn’t matter if you can’t punish them. It leaves them closer but it resets the situation. They can play the 50/50 game with throw or dp but it’s incredibly risky for them if they don’t have meter.
· Learn the positioning for where you can punish wakeup whiffed EX CW with sweep. Alternatively, if you read the wakeup EX CW, you can do an early jump back roundhouse for a more damaging punish
· Fei can do a lvl. 1 FA against fireballs slightly outside of cr. MK range and hit Ryu’s outstretched hands
· A late crossup can stuff reversal EX CW and reset Fei to the ground but will lose to delayed auto-correct Flame Kicks.
· Don’t whiff moves
· Take baby steps forward. If Fei sees you continuously walking forward without holding down-back or back to block occasionally, he will Rekka you.
Frustration has brought me here, and now I want a consensus from you Ryu players ; What do you think is his worst possible match up, I’m counterpicking the hell out of this guy and I’m not gonna be ashamed one bit, I already have tough 6-4 match ups against Honda and Balrog, I dont need this 8-2 monster aswell. PS : I play Bison
lol Ryu vs Bison is even I think,or at least no where near 8:2.Ryu’s worst matches are Fei Long and Dhalsim.
Please add what I wrote about the Fei matchup to the opening post so I don’t feel like I’ve wasted my time. Cheers.
My analysis of the Rose matchup.
[details=Spoiler]
Ryu v. Rose
5:5
Overview
The winner of this match is generally the player with better footsies and AA. Neither character has many gimmicks; both players will have to win via solid fundamentals. Rose has some excellent pokes which can beat Ryu’s and she can neutralize his far-ranged fireball game fairly easily. Ryu, though, has a very easy time pressuring Rose once she is down because she lacks a good reversal. At certain ranges, Rose will also have a hard time reflecting his fireballs on reaction. Find the sweet spots. Rose, conversely, has to take a fair amount of risk to mixup Ryu. Rose can afford to sit back on a life lead because she can keep Ryu out fairly well. Ryu would be better off going in and mixing her up.
The Fireball Game
Do not bother throwing fireballs at full screen. Rose can reflect them back at you or absorb them to build half a bar and power up her own fireball. It’s not worth it at all.
Only throw fireballs slightly outside of poking range where she will have a hard time reacting against them. Vary your fireball speeds and patterns.
Rose’s fireballs have significant recovery so you can quite easily jump over them and land a big combo. Pay attention to the startup of her fireballs. The shorter the startup, the higher the recovery. Rose’s LP Spark moves at an incredibly slow and awkward pace. If you try and neutral jump it too early you will land on it and give up ground. MP and HP Spark are too slow for fireball wars so if Rose wants to keep you blocking after knockdown but doesn’t want to risk eating reversals, she’ll throw them out. Fireball oki after a backthrow is safe from reversal U1 but LP Spark after any other type of knockdown can be punished.
Dealing with Slide
A blocked non-max ranged slide can be punished with reversal HP SRK every time. Rose cannot safely follow up a non-max ranged slide on hit either since she’ll be negative. She will most likely backdash to get herself out of potential pressure. If you anticipate the backdash, you can Tatsu or EX Fireball her out of it.
Max-ranged block slide leaves her at neutral and max-ranged hit slide will give her some frame advantage. If Rose is in the habit of throwing out cr. MP xx MK Drill afterwards, use st. LK to avoid it. st. MK is another good option Rose has after a safe slide, which will beat your cr. MK. Pay attention to their habits.
Rose can’t use slide to get under fireballs consistently if you vary up the timing but she can use it to stuff them. Always pay attention to that range where she can do a max-ranged slide in. Constantly move back and forth to throw off her spacing and whiff-punish slides with sweep.
Focus and Solar Plexus are good punishes against predictable slides. For the latter, walk in to the range where you expect a slide, step back, and throw out Solar Plexus.
The Footsies Game
The footsies range is where this matchup is won or lost. Rose has very solid pokes and her cr. MP xx MK Drill is great for pressure, building meter and can score her knockdowns as well.
The main pokes you should be watching out for are cr. MP and st. MK.
Rose’s st. MK will beat your cr. MK since its hurtbox avoids lows. Cr. MP comes fast (4f), hits low, and at max range can be cancelled into a safe MK Drill. Cr. MP xx MP Drill is not a true blockstring however so you can reversal SRK to beat the Drill. A safer option to deal with cr. MP xx MP Drill would be to use st. LK to avoid cr. MP or max-ranged MP Drill. The latter is punishable by sweep on whiff and by extension, cr. MK xx HK Tatsu.
Her st. HK will straight up whiff against cr. MK however. It does solid damage, has great reach, but is slow at 9 frames. It will catch jumps if done early enough. Her Soul Piede (forward HK) does not have the range it used to but it can stuff your jumps should you attempt them at footsies range. It is situational however so don’t let it bother you too much. Her sweep covers a ton of range but is pretty slow (9 frames) making it only viable as whiff punish. Her cr. MK is slow at 7f but has slightly longer range than st. MK and can be cancelled into MK or HK Drill, both of which are safe at max range. Again, watch what buttons you press.
For your reference, the frame advantage for LK, MK, HK, and EX Drill are -8, -6 , -4 and -6. respectively. Learn to tell the difference between them. LK Drill is always punishable, MK only by reversal SRK and super if it isn’t max-ranged. HK Drill can’t be punish unless your opponent decides to do it point blank for whatever retarded reason. EX Drill is safe at max-range and can be punished hard if it hits deep.
Rose’s Anti-Air
Rose is a pushover when you get her on her back but don’t think you’re going to have an easy time getting in on her without a hard knockdown. Cr. HP will stuff most if not all of your jump ins, including Tatsu. She can slide under non-crossup jump-ins and throw you straight out of them. She can also avoid certain early jump-in moves and crossup Tatsu with a well-timed cr. MK since it lowers her hurtbox significantly. Be prepared to tech if you see her do cr. MK or slide. Rose has a great backdash so she can FA and backdash out of jump-ins as well. Finally, a late EX Soul Throw can catch you as well.
Don’t NOT jump in at all but DO pick your shots carefully.
Dealing with Rose’s Mixup
Rose’s mixup game is based exclusively on her throw and frame trap game. She has excellent throw range, decent walk speed, and many strong frame-trapping normals. They are as follows.
cl. MK, cl. MP, cr. HP, cr. LK
cl. MK is airborne and will thus beat any type of throw. Fortunately for you, it doesn’t give her any advantage on block (completely neutral) and if she does manage to get a hit, the followup link is a 1-framer. This is due to change in 2012 however and cl. MK should be buffed to be +1/+4. Its recovery shouldn’t change however. If you read it, you can easily escape with FA backdash. cl. MK isn’t just a frame trap in itself however, and can set up multiple follows, one of the most damaging being cr. HP. It doesn’t link but there is a 4f window between cl. MK and cr. HP with which she can catch crouch tech. You can throw Rose out of the cr. HP if you’re feeling gutsy and she doesn’t do the link perfectly.
cl. MP is +1/+4 and links to cr. MP xx MK Drill for good meterless damage. The 2f gap means this is a pretty solid trap.
cr. HP isn’t usually the frame trapping move but just an opener. She can cancel it into HP Spark which will give her +2 on block or EX Spark which she can link into cr. MP xx EX Drill in the corner. Keep in mind though that you can mash out HP or EX SRK against Rose if she attempts the cr. HP xx HP Spark frame trap due to the latter move’s slow startup.
cr. LK is +1 on block making it good for linking into cr. MP or cr. HP. It’s a great tick as well. In fact, all the above moves save for cr. HP make for good ticks, thanks to little pushback, Rose’s great throw range, and frame advantage.
Don’t be afraid to mash SRK against her frame-traps. Unless Rose has Super, 2 bars for an FADC combo, Ultra or you’re in the corner, she cannot punish you for more than 210 damage (which is assuming she is close enough to do cl. MP AND land the 1f link to cr. MP xx MK or EX Spiral). If you can successfully scare Rose from pressure, you’ll have an easier time winning.
Rose has very easy to block crossups outside the corner. In the left corner, she has ambiguous jumping HP. Done early it won’t crossup. Done late it will. She can crossup with her jumping MK as well. In the right corner she has her crossup LK which lands right in front of you, making it twice as difficult to block. Other than though, her crossup mixup is very weak. Her midscreen ambiguous jumping HP is incredibly difficult to space. She does gain additional crossup options with U2 however. More on that later.
Rose’s Reversal Game
In short, she doesn’t have one. EX Drill is slow to startup, has garbage invincibility (you can jab her out of the startup), and is -6 on block (and since it pretty much always hits deep on reversal, is a free punish). EX Soul Throw will get her out of a safe-jumped crossup MK but you can sweep her afterwards in any other situation. It also loses to crossup Tatsu. U2 no longer has invincibility so if you see her activate it on wake up just SRK or jab her out of it. Unless she’s packing U1, Ryu has little reason to respect Rose’s wakeup. She definitely has the tools to hang with Ryu at the midrange and in fireball wars but once she’s down, she has one hell of a tough time getting back up.
Rose’s Ultras
Rose’s U1 does a ton of damage (498). Thankfully, it is fairly situational. It is a decent AA and anti-fireball if your opponent has good reactions. It can also be comboed into with EX Soul Spark FADC U1. If you know your opponent can reaction U1 your fireballs, then simply watch when and where you throw them. You should not be getting hit by U1 unless you whiff a SRK that isn’t the LP version (though you can get punished for that, your opponent just has to be on point). Ryu can avoid AA U1 all the time (unless he commits to a jumping move already) by doing mid-air EX Tatsu. Overall, U1 is not too big of a threat.
Rose’s U2 is a slightly different story. It used to be ridiculous on offense and defense in Super when it had invincibility and a good hitbox for the orbs. Now it’s role is purely offensive. Rose cannot activate it on wakeup or she will simply be hit out of it and lose the orbs. Its main purpose now is to allow her to mixup slightly more safely after activating U2 on your knockdown. Course, if you jump in like a retard Rose can U2, making you eat the orbs, then plant your face into the ground with ST.
Always pay attention to where the orbs are. Rose has no overhead so she cannot crack down+back very easily. She will attempt to throw you. Pay close attention to where the orbs are at when you tech. Whiffing crouch tech or throws can be potentially quite painful. On the other hand, eating a little chip damage is no big deal. Don’t forget, of course, that Rose can always frame trap you as well.
Beyond that, she can cross you up with ST, usually on your wakeup. If you see her throw that out, get ready to block the other direction. As usual, pay attention to where the orbs are at. They can hit in front of you as well as behind.
Most Roses will try to make the most of the 8 seconds of U2 by activating it after a knockdown but if they are desperate enough, they will active it midscreen to get in on you safely. It’s certainly not a get-in-for-free card. You can EX SRK direct jump-ins and AA Fireball far jump ins. EX Fireball her dash attempts. Don’t be afraid to give up ground or burn meter if you have to.
General Tips
· Do not throw fireballs unless you are sure Rose can’t react to them. Mix up your fireball speeds and patterns.
· Mash SRK liberally (but NOT recklessly) in this matchup. The risk-reward ratio is generally in your favor because Rose does pathetic meterless damage.
· Rose can compete with Ryu very well at midrange. Be patient and methodical with your offense. Do not run yourself into a wall of pokes and AAs.
· Rose has to take considerable risks to get out of pressure and mixup. EX Drill is an awful reversal. Don’t be afraid to press the offense.
· Do not fuck up your safe jumps because she can EX ST you right out of them.
· The player with better footsies and AA will generally be the winner of this matchup.[/details]
I will add it to the new matchup thread,there isn’t enough room here.
Nice writting Heavy Metal, Ive learn lot of stuff from your match up post. Thx !
My pleasure. Cheers. :tup:
I faced a Bison who “randomed” me to death with safe scissors and st. hk. Can’t use fireballs because he easily jumps over. Can’t use cr. mk because his scissor kick goes over it. Fuck this game.
Tips?
s.MP stuffs scissors.Only throw fireballs when he walks forward and if he jumps a fireball on reaction you should always be able to DP it because you recover before he gets to you.Also if he trap you in the corner with scissors loop you can block the first scissors,then do a s.LK.It will make the short he does whiff and you then jump out.Of course if he sees you doing this then he can counter it.
First, I want to say thanks for the effort everyone is putting in for these matchups. You guys are awesome.
Second, I am here because I do not know what to do against Cody. I played an A rank Cody the other night and I got absolutely mauled - I didn’t know what to look out for, what to do from what distance, what was good spacing… anything. I literally had no idea WTF to do. Any advice would be appreciated.
If it helps, he REALLY liked his Bingo (Zonk knuckle), so my block strings had to be SPOT on or else I got slammed by that. Also, he was using Last Dread Dust (Ultra II I believe) so I was afraid to chuck plasma for fear of getting Ultra’d. Help!
EDIT: I might be able to post up a video if I still have it in my queue… This terrifies me because of how badly I did, though… lol.