SSF4 AE Cammy Changes and Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
901

I know people can react to it because I and others can do it, if you’re using a character who’s moves are fast enough. Even in “faster” games people punish stuff like that all the time. Shoto whiff c.mk in st vs gief? Gief punishes with c.rh on reaction. Shoto whiff c.mk in 3s? punished by shoto/chun c.mk super. Shoto Whiff c.mk vs chun in cvs2? punished by chun s.mp super. All of which are done on reaction. This is all preceded by the punisher baiting the other player into whiffing these moves by dancing in and out of their optimal range. Of course you aren’t going to be 100%, but lots of people are able to do this with consistency. Cammy’s problem is that in SF4 and SSF4 her moves are too slow or don’t have enough range to punish consistently. IMO all of the new combos don’t really mean much, i’d rather have a cammy that can zone with her normals rather than try to run in and get mauled. Especially since low TKCS is gone.

And wouldn’t frame stepping through the vids be inaccurate since they aren’t moving at 60 fps?

SAME. I pretty much always use s.rh to whiff punish but it gets blocked often. It’s just a habitual thing that carried over from other games. I can kind of understand them not wanting c.mk to be as fast, but they could at least speed up s.mp so that it could be used how it is in alpha.

902

He was saying that you could react to shoto cr.mk and punish on reaction to whiff. Not that you could react to anything… of course you can react to things happening on the screen. What he was saying was that he could see a cr.mk whiff and punish it on reaction, which you definitely can’t.

I’m not trying to test twitch reaction time here. There’s already a site that can do that for you. It even notes that the average twitch reaction time is 215 ms, or 13 frames. Never mind actually making a conscious choice and then reacting, which is always at least 100 ms slower.

It’s explained in the first paragraph of the AE framedata post.

903

alioune :wink:

904

You know, I would just cannon strike shoto low forwards… :frowning:

905

houston got AE today. fuck cammy, bitch sucks

906

well it should be a little easier to punish shotos low forward now since her Cr.Mk is now 4 frames instead of 6. Also, I could only use St.hk for punishing whiffed normals. I really need to work on my footsies unfortunately my only footsies is St.Hk to bait jumps, or focus attacks. Sometimes I buffer Spin knuckle/hooligan and if they fireball I still have just enough time to hit them with it.

907

my footsie is strike :mad: i do that too.

depending on how far i either strike, c.lk, hk sa or strike close mp, c.mp/mk, hk sa :confused:

farther than that i would whiff c.mk, mk arrow outside their c.mk range. anticipation of c.mk whiff punish.

i guess we will replace that with EX Strike now. and honestly. i end up with A LOT of meter to spare. i dont think its that bad really. adjustment is needed. maximizing heavy bnbs from now on. and no light light light special anymore.

i told you guys its like viper!!! ever seen viper use super ??? ever seen viper WITHOUT meter?? somehow she’s always with a bar ready to spam seismo :confused:

FFF gives almost full bar. so does sako combo.

Di,

908

Man haven’t posted in a while, I have just played an hour or two and watched matches of AE at Chinatown fair in nyc. Let me start by saying in that time frame I have only seen 8 chars played. The twins,Dudley,Blanka,Gief,Sagat,Ryu,Cammy(I was one of them :3) with that said the title of this game should be changed to the Yun Edition.

On to some thoughts about Cammy’s changes. I got to play 3 matches first match was the throw away get a feel for some stuff,second and third were live against Sagat. I won the first and got the shit zoned out of me in the second.

Dive Kicks:
I do use the dive kick currently as a means to open up down backers and cross ups. This new version of the dive kick may take some time getting used to. You can still instant the ex at the cost of the bar but that’s it. It feels that the normal one is about 1/3 or so, near the apex of the jump. I’ve been trying to do late ones on the way down but they don’t seem to come out. I have combo’d from the dive kick to the crouch series (cr lk,cr lp, cr lk or cr lp,cr lk,cr lp XX SA) I think it may have been on counter hit I am unsure as to what the sagat was doing he may have just tried to walk under or tried to get dp off. Other than that any attempt that I made to use dive kick successfully was met with dp and combo. I think it may only be an option vs people with no viable wake up reversal.The other cammy got punished on block. Maybe he did it too high? The move is borderline useless at this point until we all adjust.One thing I wanted to try and use the HK cs at head height to see if it crossed up, didn’t get a chance to.

Hooligans
Hooligan trap on wake up works but the timing seems stricter, I used the MP version after a normal throw and was able to land it about 3 out of 4 times. So she still has that

Spiral Arrow
This imo was an unnecessary change I feel but basically the SA will not hit twice at certain distances. This is bad because it changes the timing and spacing to make a HK drill safe on block,continue the combo, cancel into super or create more pressure.The distance from the standing hp(backfist) is the distance that the drill hits twice. It may also be char specific too which is another problem in itself.

Cannon Spike recovery it was noticeable,very noticeable especially after a cl hp. Just gotta make sure you have meter.

Overall Cammy has definitely fell. How far that’s not yet determined. She definitely has a hard time of keeping the pressure on without meter and in some cases getting in. You really have to work to get in and stay there. Her match ups are def changing and I think she will have new bad match-ups. She feels extremely weird like a different character or an EX version of herself. Her new links are nice I landed a triple fierce on ch against computer and overall they are easier to do it feels like. The issue is getting in to land them. I was thinking maybe more focus or max distance drills. It looks like we will have to use ALL of her moves to get in because short dives over projectiles and lows aren’t happening aren’t happening.

I think you will really have to be a student of the game and practice match up specific stuff now to run her effectively.

909

So I tried cammy today at Family Arcade… across the street from LACC. Cammy is pretty much feels like a completely different character. I used to spam TKCS and jump a lot (varying my height), but now I am grounded.

The person was playing a pretty good Boxer, and now that I don’t have TKCS, I was not sure how to approach the match (not that I was good at the matchup in Super)… I was not about to waste several more dollars to try to learn the new approach… (used Ken).

So, I would say that the playstyle of Cammy changed. I also felt the HK Spiral Arrow nerf where it only hits once off of cr.lp,cr.lp,cr.lk xx h.sa… Didn’t try out her normals too much… maybe later.

In short, Cammy feels like a completely different character even though her main combos are still intact. There is a feeling lost when you can’t spam TKCS… I believe she has reverted to Super Turbo Cammy.

910

That is what I was afraid the most. She might still be viable, but I don’t want to play a different character.

911

I played Cammy a few times @ Box Hill Time Out in Melbourne… was like 30 people their, 6 cabs… some ppl were waiting 30-40 mins per go… felt the same as you… Cammy is a new character pretty much and need to learn her new approach… and its going to be expensive via arcade… I did like how Ken felt though… I’m thinking of sticking with Ken during heavy traffic and trying out Cammy when it’s light.

912

hrm… here’s what i’ve gathered from vids thus far

  • the new strike looks… iffy… the height you gotta use it from is what i would call ‘obvious-mix-up’ height … looks to be that if you use the old was of opening up an opponent you can still put on the strike pressure… if you land the strike then you can combo but that’s gonna be the hard part now… landing the the stike… i use my strikes like fuckin fireballs, they block it and i get chip dmg plus opportunity now i can’t do that… my chief concern now is adjusting to the new height restriction… i saw in the vids that everyone was whiffing air normals trying to get strikes out… will Cstrike Sako combos still work after focus crumples?

  • the EX strike and meter debate… of course we get similar strike pressure… at the cost of meter… i dunno about you guys but i use my super all the time… i had no real need to hold onto meter when i could work it back up in half a round… now i’m gonna have to horde meter to get to my ultra, to wakeup safely, and now to put on my pressure? really? damn… and i’ve recently gotten into the habit of using my EX strikes when jumping back as a ace-in-the-hole mixup

-new normals look like a sweet deal, i’m a real footsie fiend when i’m outta the strike zone, now that that zone is changing i gues better normals are cash… heavys into eachother is a good rap… forward and strong links alright i can work with those… can we really combo into sweeps like ryu with 1 framers now? that’s gotta get us a few safe strike (god i hate having to say that now) opporunities if we get it down pat… and if we can really do some Ken-style c.LP>c.LP>DP stuff then it’s awn… we need a vidscript of our new normal props and links

-Spiral Bubbles … i dunno what the deal with them are exactly… i’m seeing in the vids that only tight space combos get you both HK.SA hits… no good… and sometimes we slide over to the other side too?.. also not good… that means presuambly that if we mis-time a combo and the opponent sees, then they get the advantage simply cuz they know so… i am seeing that the SAs look safer maybe? can we still use c.MK to hitconfirm into SAs, mainly to stop empty focuses? gotta see some testing with this too but it could just mean that cannonspike might become our new goto special

any new FADC stuff we can do? or anything obscure that we’re not accounting for?

…gotta get my hands on my AE killerbee, but i’m trying to stay loyal and see the small mercies til then… keep the vids coming for the love of Knives Chau

913

[media=youtube]aCODlvisjRY&t=15m30s[/media]

So many dropped combos…
Also, lost again Dudley… O_O

914

wasn’t this video in the front page 2-3 days ago?

915

i think people are still adjusting to how cammy plays. im worried about the lack of videos :confused:

how can we get videos of that top 10 bp dude??

Di,

916

Close fierce does not combo into cr. or far fierce. Except for meaty or CHs.

Pics/proof:

Close hp last frame of recovery
2F after close hp
4F after close hp
6F after close hp

Data on close fierce is 4/4/12, +2 on block, +5 on hit
Used to be 4/4/15, -1 on block, +3 on hit

Edit: somebody please try close fierce, st./walking jab, far fierce xx hk arrow, that combo should work. And also close fierce, walk jab, cr.fierce, far fierce xx hk arrow, really doubt this will work but it’s worth checking out as well.

917

Went to Video 94 to play today, so got my first chance to mess with her. But keep in mind the place was PACKED so I played a whopping 3 games in a total of 3 to 4 hours there.

The early prognosis isn’t good.

The height restriction on Cammy’s Dive Kick is a problem, but it’s not the worst problem, IMO. The problem is that there is a height that counts as “too low” which causes you to whiff your Jump attack. If they just made it so that you entered in the Dive Kick code and she’ll just wait until she reaches the lowest height possible and comes out with the Dive Kick, I think it would have been better.

I didn’t get to try many combos. Low Strong did not combo into Stand Strong… it was too far. And a lot of other Combos I tried, the push back really is the problem. Most of the Combos wouldn’t reach far enough.

Lastly, the biggest problem was that people were playing for reals, there, and a lot of players were using their old stand-bys who didn’t actually get changed much. So while I’m using a character that feels significantly different, others are using characters they have messed with already (I lose to a Dhalsim and Marn’s Yun and Justin’s Yang). So it was really hard for me to figure anything out.

And that Dhalsim match feels really bad now. It may have straight went from Cammy advantage to Dhalsim advantage, but I’m not sure yet.

But yeah, it’s pretty bleak right now, but I didn’t get a chance to play much. I really need to sit down in Training Mode and try out different block sequences and stuff. The biggest problem now, though, is that if the opponent decides to Block a lot, what will happen is that your block sequences will push you out with no ability to get in close anymore. EX Dive Kick will be very important.

Oh yeah, and one more nerf: Combos into Roundhouse Drill in the corner make her go under people it seems. Maybe it’s just Yun and Yang… it already happened with Guy in Super, but if it happens to everyone now, we should be ending all of our combos with Short Drills no matter what.

  • James
918

im speechless.

you got me worried even more about the height restriction. i will get a chance to play AE later next week. not expecting much to be honest.

919

Told ya! What I was doing was mixing between short arrow and forward… And when I cross into the corner I do a rh strike or just cross up or hp hooligan out.

And I was confused about block pressure too… I was mostly trying jab walk jab lock downs with cl mp and cl fp followed by more jabs keeping away from cr hp and mp because of the push back

920

Neg-edge the dive kicks. It’s a pain to get used to holding a kick button before jumping, though.
I started doing it a while ago with Makoto, and now it seems it’ll also be useful for Cammy.