U2 isn’t worthless in the match up by any means, but what you can do with U1 just outweighs it IMO.
You can punish wall dives and wall dive whiffs just as easily with U1.
Also U1 does way more damage against Vega because it consistently knocks off his claw and mask off which can cause extra damage. U1 also gives you the ability to OS Sweep and still be able to punish back flips because if you see one you can cancel your sweep into U1. In general U1 also punishes back flips a lot easier and more efficiently than U2.
Lastly U1 gives you something in this match up U2 can never and that is c.HK shenanigans. Since this is one of two match ups where c.HK can be easily punished on block by the opponent U1 gives you the ability to land gimmicky demons that will actually land a lot. If you intentionally bait Vega into punishing your sweep you can delay the demon enough to catch him. This sounds like it shouldn’t land, but so many Vega players are so used to punishing the sweep that they don’t even think about it. I’ve landed this against so many good Vega player. And the best part is almost no one catches on because if they start worrying about it they are giving up the opportunity to punish the sweep. It is just too tempting for them.
Overall U1’s uses just overpower U2. In general the only thing I can see that U2 can punish that U1 can’t is teleport punish attempts and even then it is iffy because Vega’s EX wall dive is so fast they can time it to land during your recovery where you can’t use U2 anyways.
Just a slight bit of info. Focus doesn’t lose to throw if you use it correctly. Because Akuma’s focus moves him back it is hard for Vega to consistently grab you out of it. The key is not to use the focus until a little before Vega hits you. By then he can’t adjust to grab you and instead hits your focus and lands right in front of you.
Oh and Vega CAN punish teleports with EX Izuna drop.
U2 isn’t worthless in the match up by any means, but what you can do with U1 just outweighs it IMO.
You can punish wall dives and wall dive whiffs just as easily with U1.
Also U1 does way more damage against Vega because it consistently knocks off his claw and mask off which can cause extra damage. U1 also gives you the ability to OS Sweep and still be able to punish back flips because if you see one you can cancel your sweep into U1. In general U1 also punishes back flips a lot easier and more efficiently than U2.
Lastly U1 gives you something in this match up U2 can never and that is c.HK shenanigans. Since this is one of two match ups where c.HK can be easily punished on block by the opponent U1 gives you the ability to land gimmicky demons that will actually land a lot. If you intentionally bait Vega into punishing your sweep you can delay the demon enough to catch him. This sounds like it shouldn’t land, but so many Vega players are so used to punishing the sweep that they don’t even think about it. I’ve landed this against so many good Vega player. And the best part is almost no one catches on because if they start worrying about it they are giving up the opportunity to punish the sweep. It is just too tempting for them.
Overall U1’s uses just overpower U2. In general the only thing I can see that U2 can punish that U1 can’t is teleport punish attempts and even then it is iffy because Vega’s EX wall dive is so fast they can time it to land during your recovery where you can’t use U2 anyways.
Just a slight bit of info. Focus doesn’t lose to throw if you use it correctly. Because Akuma’s focus moves him back it is hard for Vega to consistently grab you out of it. The key is not to use the focus until a little before Vega hits you. By then he can’t adjust to grab you and instead hits your focus and lands right in front of you.
Oh and Vega CAN punish teleports with EX Izuna drop.
I’ve messed around with the timing and it seems to get the unblockable you need to time it later than dashx2 can produce. So actually after the throw nerf this unblockable might be easier.
You’re doing an amazing job with those detailed matchup guides, thanks again.
A couple of things though:
1- Akuma’s cr.mp is +2 on block not 3, so the gap between it and far roundhouse would be 6 frames, it’s still a very good frame trap for catching late cr.techs though.
2- I’d say Vega’s best escape option is his backdash (one of the best in the game specially after the airborne buff in AE), his flips have a LOT of recovery frames, IIRC you can even punish it After your OS sweep comes out and whiffs with st.jab > sweep lol, if you didn’t OS sweep, you’re going to get a free full combo unlike his backdash (the recovery on his flips are quite a lot, something like 40+ for the short version while the long version has 60+ recovery frames).
I barely ever see high level Vega players use his flips much, they do love the backdash though lol.
I also think it’s worth noting that you shouldn’t AA Vega’s normal jump-ins with cr.hp (SRK instead while being careful at the range he’s jumping from so it wouldn’t whiff), his j.hp’s hitbox is so good it’ll stuff it pretty much every single time.
Also, air fireballs should be spaced very carefully, because Vega’s awesome walkspeed + his sweep = free knockdown vs badly spaced air fireballs.
Ok so it seems that forward throw wiff>c jab stand fierce>jump mk is frame perfect for this unblockable. Best part is when 2012 drops substitute the cr jab for st jab because st jab is 2 frames faster.
Viper wakes up a frame slower after forward throw, 36 frames (i.e x2 dashes) will catch her first vulnerable wakeup frame IIRC, so I think if your setup was done frame perfectly it’ll whiff since she’s still not up yet because your setup has a total of 35 frames (cr.jab 11 + far fierce 24).
Ok this version looks like the easiest to hit - forward throw whiff overhead jump mk.
Since Akuma is such a frame specific character we should have his total frame calculated to best calculate a frame perfect setup. What I have thus far -
move - total frames
cr lp - 11
cr mp - 15
cr hp - 32
cr lk - 14
cr mk - 20
cr hk - 32
far lp - 9
far mp - 18
far hp - 24
far lk - 12
far mk - 23
far hk - ?
close lp - 11
close mp - 17
close hp - 31
close lk - 13
close mk - 20
close hk - ?
how do you guys zone dictator? i am having trouble doing air fireball as they are doing random stomps. or is it actually a risk for them to do so?
coz when i watch the high level game of tokido vs those shungoku/aio momo those stomps are hardly ever used. yet i find myself being caught into that alot.
also empty devil reverse is punishable isnt it? but alot of the time, they just land in front of me and forced me to tech then they managed to close the distance and start to play scissor game sooner or later.
and also those post devil reverse punches… are they 100% definitely duckable with c.mp? or is there any scenario that bison can do to make ducking impossible?
i mean, my friend tells me if they aim directly on my head using ex devil reverse then i can’t duck it which i think is pure bullshit or perhaps they are right and i should be doing c.hp?
I would think that using cr.MP - st. HP as a frame trap would be less effective than cr. MP - st. HK because of the space dependecy - if you’re not point-blank when you do the cr.MP you may get fs. HP. This is, however, speculation - can anyone confirm?
Yeah, if you’re not really close you will often get fs.hp instead…but on counter hit fs.hp combos into sweep (and does a good chunk of damage) so it’s not that bad after all.