@Eternal
Don’t mind The olympian. He will disagree with anything without giving a valuable reason.
I actually got most of my “disagrees” from him lol. And he never gave a reason.
Me: Rose needs buffs because bla bla bla
Him: No.
Me: Its good to get inputs from different players. I don’t think only the top 3 players of each character is enough
Him: No.
Me: Puts up a list of suggestions to buff Rose
Him: Doesn’t like it. Why ? nobody knows.
In other words: just let it be. Don’t mind the disagreements when the person doesn’t provide any reasons
prolly mad his char bout to get nerf nuked.
join the fuckin club son. BAHAHAHAHA!!!
Yeah I was gonna say all it takes is to mention Cammy in a remotely positive light and I can count on that little avatar to decorate the bottom of my post.
Olympian is known for switching Gen and Cammy in the Tier Lists. Apparently the old man has too strong a vortex.
Edit: Just to contribute something mildly useful. How would people want to see Ibuki toned down? If unblockables are removed she’s gonna have a pretty rough time since she is going to have to commit serious risks for strong mixups.
Though, that could be considered the meat n potatoes of playing Ibuki
A typo here, surely?
EDIT: Can I do one better and start pretending Akuma has no tools and that Dan or something is the epitome of viability? Does anyone have something I could use to deal with mental backlash from such blatant intellectual dishonesty?
I don’t think removing unblockables will affect her gameplay ? The kunai mixups / high damage potential / footsies / can still make her very viable imo
People really underestimate the strength of just Ibuki’s left right kunai mixup even without unblockables. Plus even then her damage output off is really good and her footsies are solid and she has a safe comboable overhead that has a surprisingly small hurtbox that also avoids a lot of crouching attacks compared to similar overheads like Fei’s or Yun’s. It is slow to start up at 25F but it’s extremely safe on whiff thanks tot he 10F recovery and I’m not certain you can level 2 focus crumple it due to there being only 11F after absorbing the hit before Ibuki recovers, isn’t level 2 focus 12F after button released?
Ibuki’s damage is really good, her LMH Punch target combo alone is 170damage. So you do LMH - LK Tsumuji - s.LP - s.MK - Neck breaker that is 338damage meterless starting on a 3F jab chain combo that is +1F on block.
While I think some of Ibuki’s strengths are severely underestimated because her vortex is so effect I also think that it would be pretty easy to overnerf Ibuki.
For me, I’d like to see her far LP nerfed. Reduce the hitbox slightly (right now she can counterhit Cody’s cr.LK from almost max distance of the cr.LK using far LP) and make it +3/+7 not +4/+8 or something along those lines. Her far MK needs to EITHER have it’s hitbox moved closer to the knee (it reaches fairly far past it) or have the hurtbox extended slightly closer to the edge of the hitbox. Her cr.HK - s.HK target combo shouldn’t be jump cancelable on block IMO.
I think a BIG way to balance her without outright nerfing her tools themselves would be to reduce her meter gain. Without meter her defense is much much weaker as she doesn’t have an invincible DP anymore and has to rely on her fairly good backdash, or her 3F cr.LP/s.LP and her cr.LK is 4F and not chainable (though it links into itself). As many of you saw at South East Asia Major when Ren’s Ibuki didn’t have a bar or 3bars was the main time Justin’s Rufus was able to actually get anything going. Ibuki however builds meter INCREDIBLY well thanks to her extended combos, her target combo block strings/frame traps, and her tsumuji which builds 30meter for each kick. If they nerfed her ability to gain meter on block/hit a bit she’d be at least a little bit easier to pin down.
I really dunno how to fix her Kunai loops without making the Kunai lackluster as a move (see: SFxT) or hurting her ability to do mixups. There isn’t really a good answer to that problem that doesn’t result in really hurting Ibuki as a whole as far as I can see, at least no solutions that wouldn’t require a pretty hefty overhaul to other moves to give her new options.
By “remotely positive light” I meant “saying she has any useful tools whatsoever”.
Asd, just completely misinterpreted / didn’t get what you were getting at somehow. I guess brain is still in vacation mode.
Vulpes
1590
Olympian disagreeing with you is something like chubbyfingers tagging you as a Troll. It means you probably said something correct.
You guys are taking this to a real rude and off topic place.
I was going to flag you as a troll and then I realized…
I seem to have been placed in an inescapable dilemma.
One thing I love about Blanka, 11f release on his level 2.
Totally agree. I think Ibuki is good already even on the ground,but her oki’s after KD’s are damn too good. ATM Ibuki is the only one of the 3 characters from 3s consistently present at tourneys,everyone knows why. She’s too different from her original form and her kunai’s game really shines in this engine. I like the character,but not the way she’s used already:maybe fixing the kunai’s is enough if the oki game become weaker.
Not really. All these points still stands as matter of exchanging opinions between members of a forum. Is it because we are directly talking about someone instead of making it general ? I don’t see why it should be treated differently. Yes the topic is about tier lists but having someone disagreeing on an opinion without giving any insights on the subject doesn’t help at all. Also, as you can see, we didn’t start rambling about this for 2-3 pages.
God I wish Rose had at least 12F release on her level 2 
Azrael
1596
The only ways I can think of to fix Kunai vortex is a system change - allow for different wakeup timings - or increase the landing recovery so that she can’t combo after it. The latter would let her still have the mixup but it would only be a question of whether or not you take damage from the Kunai. They can keep it so that she’s at frame advantage after hit so she can follow up with a frame trap/throw mixup, but at least it wouldn’t be a guaranteed combo into the same setup.
@blufang Care to clarify what you disagree with about my post? I mean I’m guessing you disagree with my suggestions on how to nerf Ibuki, but I did specify it’d be pretty easy to over nerf her. You have to know Ibuki is going to get tweaked and probably result in a nerfing so what is wrong with:
Reduce hitbox slightly on far LP increase recovery by 1F
Increase hurtbox slightly on far MK (OR reduce hitbox slightly)
Reduce all around meter gain from Target Combos and tsumuji loops.
Make cr.HK - HK Target Combo not jump cancelable on block. Still cancelable on hit.
Do SOMETHING about the Kunai vortex but be careful about how the move is altered and risk making the mixup not really effective at all.
It’s going to be funny when Infiltration wins Evo with Ryu. He’s probably sick of all of the bitching as though he’s only winning because Akuma is “just so much better” than every other character.
Actually, the ending of the matches is hilarious. For an obvious reason.
Well, you nerf 2 of her normals (for a character that doesn’t have outstanding normals), decrease meter gain and nerf her strongest point - her vortex. That’s quite a bunch of nerfs in my oppinion.
Now the question is - Does Ibuki really need to be toned down ? is she OP/ broken ? Nobody considers her to be among top 5 characters in the game. And except for Sako winning the first ToL, her tournament performances are quite weak.
I really don’t think Ibuki needs to be nerfed. She is strong, but not that strong that she needs to be toned down.
I think she could get some slight buffs instead of nerfs, and remove the kunai followup for Dp.
Komatik
1600
Azrael’s idea of making it so that the Kunai either can’t be followed up on or making it so that it can only be followed up by a mixup, not a guaranteed combo makes the most sense to me. That way the Kunai becomes less of a “oh lolz left/right” thing, and more of a setup for a very human-controlled mixup with discrete options that demand discrete answers like Akuma’s or Ken’s mixups are, and thus something that can be read by the opponent.
If unblockables get removed and that implemented, I think Ibuki is just fine and definitely not in need of nerfs. She’s a mixup character, so let her have mixups, just make them require more brain activity.
