SSF4 AE 2012 Tier List Thread (OP last updated May 2014)

Azrael · 2013-06-14T08:59:30.000Z

Forgive my ignorance but what’s the setup on that? Just back throw, wait a sec, U1?

SirSwagnificent · 2013-06-14T23:25:21.000Z

HI GUISE, I THINK ADON NEEDS BUFF HE’S SLOW AND NEED BETTER SPECIALS PLZ ADD

dayvon_p · 2013-06-15T01:24:58.000Z

Ggs ibuki players.

SHODAN · 2013-06-15T21:17:11.000Z

ugo_2u:

$1,000,000 Bison Dollars for whoever escapes this setup on video.

So Vega is now the first character with an inescapable setup and unblockable ultra hahahaa, I wonder if this will affect the matchup in any way

That Vega U1 setup is just plain silly, lol. It’s not a regular unblockable in the sense that it’d be about sides or hitboxes; it works because of a bug in Ibuki’s wake up animation. The way the invincibility and speed has been defined in her animation can create a unique situation where the last frame of her wake up animation loses its invincibility. This only applies to her face up/lying on back wake up anim. No other character has this issue, so yeah, the setup is Ibuki-only. The “bad frame” never shows up in standard gameplay; it needs very specific conditions. There’s a bug(?)/strange feature in Vega’s U1 — specifically, the part where he travels towards the wall — that causes it to affect the other character’s animation speed, similar to super freeze. That’s a pretty technical topic, but to make a long story short, Vega doing his U1 alters Ibuki’s wake up animation sequence in a way that causes the final frame of the anim to reference the non-invincible frame.

So, the reason you can’t block it, the CPU dummy can’t block it, reversals don’t come out, is because Ibuki is still waking up. It’s like being in recovery. Reversals only come out after the wake up is over, and it’s not over yet by the time she gets hit by the ultra. In my opinion, the setup could be seen as one continuous combo, because as long as the Vega player’s execution is on point, the U1 is guaranteed.

Dex_Sama · 2013-06-15T21:33:47.000Z

Its funny how both the japanese and english Vega shit all over Ibuki LOL

ugo_2u · 2013-06-15T23:02:13.000Z

SHODAN:

ugo_2u:

$1,000,000 Bison Dollars for whoever escapes this setup on video.

So Vega is now the first character with an inescapable setup and unblockable ultra hahahaa, I wonder if this will affect the matchup in any way

That Vega U1 setup is just plain silly, lol. It’s not a regular unblockable in the sense that it’d be about sides or hitboxes; it works because of a bug in Ibuki’s wake up animation. The way the invincibility and speed has been defined in her animation can create a unique situation where the last frame of her wake up animation loses its invincibility. This only applies to her face up/lying on back wake up anim. No other character has this issue, so yeah, the setup is Ibuki-only. The “bad frame” never shows up in standard gameplay; it needs very specific conditions. There’s a bug(?)/strange feature in Vega’s U1 — specifically, the part where he travels towards the wall — that causes it to affect the other character’s animation speed, similar to super freeze. That’s a pretty technical topic, but to make a long story short, Vega doing his U1 alters Ibuki’s wake up animation sequence in a way that causes the final frame of the anim to reference the non-invincible frame.

So, the reason you can’t block it, the CPU dummy can’t block it, reversals don’t come out, is because Ibuki is still waking up. It’s like being in recovery. Reversals only come out after the wake up is over, and it’s not over yet by the time she gets hit by the ultra. In my opinion, the setup could be seen as one continuous combo, because as long as the Vega player’s execution is on point, the U1 is guaranteed.

Thank you so much for the explanation, was thinking my joystick has suddenly refused to work. It was wierd finding this and when I tell people about it they call me a noob that cant reversal on wakeup. thank you for helping clear it up

ugo_2u · 2013-06-15T23:04:30.000Z

also it WIFFS on other opponents and crosses up on Gen

ugo_2u · 2013-06-20T05:16:57.000Z

Ok yet another Unblockable Ultra 1 setup on Ibuki and yes she cant escape it as well, its only a matter of time before vega players get the timing down and rain destruction on Ibuki lol! just kidding, CAPCOM we need that patch ASAP! still this DOESN’T change the matchup

Killer_Jigglypuff · 2013-06-20T10:22:42.000Z

I say don’t patch it. Serves the bitch right for having such a brainless mixup.

AmigoOne · 2013-06-20T11:28:17.000Z

SHODAN:

That Vega U1 setup is just plain silly, lol. It’s not a regular unblockable in the sense that it’d be about sides or hitboxes; it works because of a bug in Ibuki’s wake up animation. The way the invincibility and speed has been defined in her animation can create a unique situation where the last frame of her wake up animation loses its invincibility. This only applies to her face up/lying on back wake up anim. No other character has this issue, so yeah, the setup is Ibuki-only. The “bad frame” never shows up in standard gameplay; it needs very specific conditions. There’s a bug(?)/strange feature in Vega’s U1 — specifically, the part where he travels towards the wall — that causes it to affect the other character’s animation speed, similar to super freeze. That’s a pretty technical topic, but to make a long story short, Vega doing his U1 alters Ibuki’s wake up animation sequence in a way that causes the final frame of the anim to reference the non-invincible frame.

So, the reason you can’t block it, the CPU dummy can’t block it, reversals don’t come out, is because Ibuki is still waking up. It’s like being in recovery. Reversals only come out after the wake up is over, and it’s not over yet by the time she gets hit by the ultra. In my opinion, the setup could be seen as one continuous combo, because as long as the Vega player’s execution is on point, the U1 is guaranteed.

How do you find out the technical details to things like these?

m16ghost · 2013-06-20T22:00:28.000Z

AmigoOne:

How do you find out the technical details to things like these?

Because the game is out on PC, you can look directly into the contents of the files and the memory as the game is running. Shodan, as well a few people here on SRK, are very good at figuring these things out.

You can use Ono to look at the difference between when the invulnerability ends and when the animation frames end. Normally, they fall on the same “in-game” frame when the game is running at normal speed, but if you can use a move that changes the animation speed (like a super), then it is possible to “pull apart” the two events, and cause the animation script to end one “in-game” frame later than when the invulnerability stops. This causes Ibuki to be fully hittable, and causes the true unblockable. As Shodan mentioned, it is a fairly technical topic.

The speed multiplier also explains why certain supers- like Chun’s mk super for instance- can punish certain moves that are -1 on block, and cannot punish others. The reason has to do with how the opponents moves are specifically scripted.

It sounds like it might be possible to time certain character’s supers to also make them unblockable against Ibuki’s wakeup, depending on what Vega’s U1 speed multiplier is, and a whole bunch of other things.

ABDHN · 2013-06-22T08:18:42.000Z

Vulpes:

ABDHN:

believe me, bison in the right hands is a raging tyrant

Any character for which this isn’t true?

Dan

anon48151394 · 2013-06-22T09:00:20.000Z

Kinda off topic, but Sakura would be deadly if one could capitalize on every combo opportunity. At 4:00 into this video, it only took one opening for the Sakura player to inflict massive damage and stun Tokido with the next set up.

It’s also the case for Chun Li, she’s got a lot of damage potential.

Eternal · 2013-06-22T15:45:25.000Z

Justin just got perfected 3x in a two out of three match at SEAM2013 against an Ibuki player named REN. None of em were twice in a row but still, 3 perfects out of 8 rounds.

Veserius · 2013-06-22T22:50:43.000Z

the thing is with chun her damage potential comes off of moves that don’t have a mixup component. Sak just crouch techs and you die.

DeathGun · 2013-06-23T04:24:47.000Z

Eternal:

None of em were twice in a row but still, 3 perfects out of 8 rounds.

just another ordinary day for Ibuki

Eternal · 2013-06-23T04:27:56.000Z

Veserius:

the thing is with chun her damage potential comes off of moves that don’t have a mixup component. Sak just crouch techs and you die.

Hence why if Cody ever got a hit confirmable low I’d want it to cls.LK NOT cr.LK because then he couldn’t just do crouch tech to combo. Characters that can combo off of a hit confirmed cr.LK to a high damaging sequence that ends in a knockdown are pretty problematic at the moment. Ibuki/Seth/Cammy/Sakura/Fei can all do a fair chunk of damage starting on a cr.LK. Obviously many characters can do it but these ones get some of the best positioning AND damage out of it.

anon48151394 · 2013-06-23T06:05:36.000Z

Seth’s leg move is good for positioning but it doesn’t lead to any decent mixup opportunity. He can still hit confirm into SRK but you need to be at very close range to confirm with c.lk.

Eternal · 2013-06-23T13:49:26.000Z

I’d love to know what exactly The-Olympian disagrees with this time. Nothing I said was wrong in the slightest. Cammy does get good damage off of a cr.LK hit confirm, cammy also gets good positioning off of a cr.LK hit confimed to spiral arrow. At the moment almost everyone in the top tier is able to do a cr.LK hit confirm into a knockdown (techable or untechabe varies) with good positioning. Fei gets a ton of corner carry. Cammy gets a decent amount of corner carry and a bunch of setups if the opponent quick rises. Ibuki gets to start her Kunai vortex. Sakura gets a FUCK TON of corner carry and a hard knockdown. Ect ect.

I really love how The Olympian clicks disagree on posts all the time then never quantifies his argument. Could you imagine if debates where held that way? One guy states his views, gives reasoning in an attempt to convince people of his views and then the moderator passes it over to the opponent who just says “I disagree” and stands there silently for the remainder of his time.

AlexTheKing:

Seth’s leg move is good for positioning but it doesn’t lead to any decent mixup opportunity. He can still hit confirm into SRK but you need to be at very close range to confirm with c.lk.

Seth gets a ton of corner carry and is often able to follow up with stomps depending on the distance from the corner he started the combo, as long as he is about 1/3rd to 1/4th of the stage distance from the corner when he does cr.LK - cr.LK - cr.LP - cr.MP - LK Legs he’ll end up in the corner able to combo into stomps. If he is farther than that the distance that the LK Legs knocks back is a bit over 1/3rd of the stage on it’s own so he gets a ton of corner carry. Also Seth has some solid mixups mid screen after legs, not his BEST options (as Tony mentions his teleport puts him slightly out of ideal range) but solid options none the less.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58HnpzFyuJ0 (skip to 11:30

anon48151394 · 2013-06-23T14:38:11.000Z

I meant fullscreen, and if you use PPP teleport most of the time it will cross-up and it leaves you closer to your opponent, but once again not a solid mixup.

Of course there are other gimmicks like fireball into wall jump etc… but it is not seen very often