The problem with Yang is he can pressure an opponent for ages and slowly chip way, and then they do one reversal and the match is nearly even again. He can’t afford to make as many mistakes/guess wrong as much as many other characters. Against a character like Makoto with Ultra 1 the problem is exacerbated.
In AE, Sagat was actually considered a counter-pick against the twins. This perception changed over time, mostly for Yun, but I think people still considered it in Sagat’s favour vs Yang. If that were the case back then, I don’t see why it would change now.
I believe EmblemLord has a bit of experience with this matchup so he might have more info.
Found this: Nemo said in Vanilla AE Cammy, Adon, Sagat, Hawk and Gief were bad matchups for Yang
http://www.17utt.com/uploadfile/2011/0415/20110415034938194.jpg
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Well, I can think of one reason: people have had 19months to develop tech and fully explore the match up since then. Many MUs have had shifts since AE or even AE2012 came out in terms of how they are played.
I agree to an extent, but I really don’t think the Yang v Sagat matchup has changed much because:
- Sagat was slightly buffer in AE while Yang got weaker
- There aren’t many high-level Yangs about these days while there are a ton of high level Sagats, so while it’s true that the matchup may have changed, whose word are we going to take for it? Personally, if a Sagat player says Yang loses and vice versa with a Yang player, I’d be more inclined to go with the former’s opinion.
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Also, in regards to chiping a character for a long time only to eat a reversal and have it be even again. Isn’t Bison basically in the same boat as Yang in that respect? They both also have similar damage output. Bison has a better raw poke with sMK being 70 and sHK being 110 but Yang can convert his crMK at any time while Bison needs charge. I mean, in many respects the two share a lot of the same problems regarding comeback factor and damage output with Yang having better overall conversions, better anti airs, and better whiff punishes but bison having better wake up and higher chip damage once he gets you in the corner (though He isn’t nearly as good at doing so as Yang)
This isn’t related to any specific MU though as they are very different in terms of where they fail, heavily due to the difference in jump arcs and other tools. However my point is just that the low damage combos and relatively slow win condition through chip and frame traps are things shared between the two. However isn’t Bison usually considered in the upper half of the tiers?
As for Sagat, I wouldn’t really consider Sagat any buffer in AE2012, at least not in any way that remotely affects the Yang MU:
That is all he got. Yang certainly got weaker, MUCH weaker, but on the same note he was also the less explored of the two twins and the rumor used to be that he had potential to be even better than Yun overall (not sure how much stock I take in that idea but it was said a lot during AE days)
Bison would be considered better thanks to his better wakeup and more health.
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But the issue was damage I thought? It’s not like Yang’s wakeup is exactly lacking, though certainly not on Bison’s level (almost no one is). Health dif I can see but does it really swing the whole thing that much for Bison to have 1k and Yang 900 when Yang has better conversions during footsies and a more consistently landable ultra? I mean, Yang is landing 140-200ish damage a lot more often than Bison is landing his ~160 damage. Plus Yang is cause chip more often and building more meter.
Seriously, Yang builds bonkers meter.
Take a look:
crMK - Rekka x3 = 134 meter. (30 meter of is unscaled meter gain from the rekka startup). BnB of crLK x3 - HP Rekka x3 = 132 meter
Ryu doing crMK - Hadoken = 70 meter (crLK - crLK - crLP - crHK = 98 meter. Alt crLP - crLP - crHP - HK Tatsu = 139 meter)
Yun doing far MP - LP Shoulder = 130 meter (crLK - crLK - farLP - far MP - LP Shoulder = 150 meter)
Cody doing crLK - MK Ruffian = 80 meter (crLP - crLP - crMP - HP CU = 102 meter)
Fei long doing Rekkax3 = 58 meter. (His BnB of crLK - crLK - sLP - crLP - Rekka x3 = 115meter)
Bison doing crLKx3 - MK Scissor = 80 meter
Also, question for Yang players: Why aren’t you doing crLK - crLK - crLP - crMK - Rekkax3 for your BnB? It does 174 damage 297 stun instead of 147 damage 245 stun. It’s not like it’s a difficult timing for the 1F link for crLK - crLP or even crLP - crMK and it’s also not like other characters don’t do 1F links for their BnBs (Blanka’s crLK - crLK, Vega’s crLP - crLP, Fei’s sLP - crLP, Rose’s crLK - crLK - crLK - crMP, Sagat crLP - crLP, Balrog crLK - crLP, those are all commonly seen 1F links with many of them being unplinkable LP links.)
Carltwo
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I don’t think Yang is that good but I don’t think he needs the j.mk cross up outside the corner - just give him slightly more damage and return s.lk to 3f.
He’s not a good character by any means but he has tools to win matches, and very few, if any hard counters when compared to pretty much all the other characters I consider “low tier” or not “viable for tournaments” (Dhalsim, Chun, Honda, Hawk, Dudley, Fuerte, Deejay, Guile ETC.) Only thing that holds him back is he needs like 8 combos to kill you where as Seth, Ibuki, Cammy, Sakura, Akuma only need 3-4 and also deal much higher stun.
yang-akuma is in yang’s favor. thats what it is on the SRK tier list, and if you go to utube, there are some japanese replays and almost of all of them have yang winning
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Curious: how much meter does yun build with target combo into shoulder on block.
Dude, every japanese player is messing with yang now lol. Guess the upcoming loktests have them excited to try him out.
Evil Ryu can also combo into hard knockdown on Yang without meter. Can’t Yang mash his reversal through Akuma/Ken/Ryu’s* cr.MK > Fireball and win? I know he can’t do that to E.Ryu
*Ryu at max range that is.
everyone with an invincible dp can mash through c.mk>fireball if its not a true string
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The e. Ryu numbers are from a time he was played like Ryu. Logic was: lives by cr. Mk vs divekick - good matchup.
Probably doesn’t hold true anymore
there was a time when ppl forgot dive kicks were active till the ground?
jebop
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Yang I’d say is mid tier at best. Bottom tier online ofc, all that hardwork and 1 counter hit dp = same life.
hes not bottom tier online
i think its because Everyone online thinks Yang is Ass and is never played so hes bottom tier
play FNEX Shiine’s yang online and tell me if he’s bottom tier
i def think yang beats akuma. i think he beats all the shotos TBH. ive had sets with some really good e.ryu players. online warriors and tournament players. he has to play the match a lot like ryu, except he takes half yangs life if you get touched by a low forward.
best match is sim by far IMO. everything corner carries. he cant throw fireballs. multi angled dive kicks. easy punishes on sniper. and yang can force sim to block meaty palms still in this version. sim can escape the chip of the palm but yang will recover and be able to punish anything he does aside from wake up super/ultra. that really opens him up to anything yang wants because he’ll have to respect fake palms
sagat feels pretty close to even. i could see it being maybe slightly in sagats favor. yangs heavy buttons are really good against sagat, and i feel like yang bullies him at mid range. however sagat is going to have a good chance to negate everything at least once per round, and his tall foward leaning hitbox makes it hard to get good + frames on any dive kicks, and also makes it a lot tougher to get into low forward rekka range. i wouldnt argue if people wanted to call it for sagat
i need offline exp against deejay. hard to judge the match when you cant AA knee shots. but yang struggles to punish lk sobat, and slide does a decent job AAing dive kicks. deejay buttons are decent in this match as well
rufus is probably a loss. they both get a lot of opportunities to land damage, but rufus does way more of it, and doesnt care as much about playing at neutral
cant see mak being worse than even. who gets momentum first type match.
matches yang for sure takes Ls- honda, gief, hawk, balrog
matches i wonder about because they get commonly listed as Ls-bison, cammy, adon, seth, sakura
Yang destroys Akuma in 3S as well. From the moment Yang entered the series he was destined to smash Akuma across all the games.
jebop
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Yang beats Akuma, but don’t say that at a tournament. In fact, don’t say Yang beats any character. They will tell you he’s mid tier with 0 good matchups. You’ll get laughed at for being stupid. #Kappa
