6021

You mean truths like Bison’s pokes “win 100% of the time”? How do you even make a blanket statement like this? I acknowledge that Bison’s pokes generally win, but occasionally it will trade or even get stuffed due to variations in timing, and therefore it’s not worth it to stay in that range. Gief can and will take a risk to force Bison to stop pressing buttons. Standing that close to gief is like picking up nickels in front of a steamroller.

Ask yourself why Bison isn’t always staying inside of st.mk range if it’s such a dominant position:

Spoiler

Dogura vs SnakeEyez
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSJAIt3dNiY

Neurosis vs SnakeEyez
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FYA8rq2XNk

Neurosis vs Zangitan w/ Happy Medicine commentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXq71d_jVtM

You still have options, and those options either do 200+ damage or lead to knockdown. Or Bison can attempt cr.lk combos for ~130 damage. It’s not a guaranteed mixup, that’s why Capcom made gief land full screen.

If the Bison is so good to time his cr.lk frame-perfect every time, Gief can wait a frame to time spd to beat the cr.lk. You even have a 2-frame window to execute it correctly. In reality this scenario doesn’t usually play out with Bison pressing cr.lk that often because it’s risky to stay in front of gief and the payoff from a cr.lk combo isn’t great.

How is meaty pressure not fine against Bison, yet it’s a viable option against Gief? Bison has no options to stop meaty jabs outside of super. Gief has options, and they do a lot of damage.

Regarding nj fierce, Bison isn’t normally in range for this after a knockdown because of spacing. Bison throws full screen, and scissors knockdown is full screen. Nj.hp after a throw only works near the corner, or if Bison connects with a raw slide/grounded EX-headstomp. All the other options you listed are all baits, which is hardly strong oki.

Yes, and you attempted pressure at zero risk to yourself.

Then read Bison’s charge, or make him move forward. The only thing you’re risking then is eating 70 damage from st.mk for a misread lariat, or 90 damage from st.hk for a missed SPD.

Normally if you see one character forced to take what appears to be random risks, then that’s a good sign that they’re losing neutral. But if they continue to do it throughout the match, and they actually seem to be getting away with it, perhaps it’s not as risky as you think? Being able to make good reads as a gief player is much more helpful than being able to make good reads as a Bison player in this matchup.

6022

Not gonna quote you but answer them one by one.

Im not asking them to stay in that range all the time, im asking them not to press the buttons out of range if the gief is throwing out moves to stuff it -_-

after LP SPD, without U1 or EX-Meter, you have no options that beat Bison c.lk So Im not sure which theese 200+ dmg options are if we are without meter.

Zangief also has to be frameperfect to make the +1 trade with Bison, so that one goes both ways. Of course, im not asking Bison to press c.lk everytime, as you say. There are other options available. But that it is even an option, is pretty destructive.

How is it Zero risk? if you do anything but back teleport/backdash you get a huge punish on it…

There is only one place Zangief is better than Bison, and that is in the health department. Everywhere else Bison is better when they face eachother.

6023

Mago is looking solid with Oni, i’m intrigued to see if he’ll pick him in tournaments. I’m curious as to what is the highest dmg that Oni can do with two bars?

6024

Mago’s reaction at the end of the first match, lol.

6025

Around 420 dmg iirc,without Ultra included.

6026

From the Oni forums, didn’t try and find a combo myself that is higher but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was one:

6027

I meant without a jump in, I did 430 in training mode just now, i’m sure he could go over 440.

6028

Fair points. Hopefully this all changes in Ultra. If they don’t go back on their current changes, she’s gonna be a beast!

How to play a top tier before everyone else finds out:

  1. Copy Mago.
  2. Copy Alioune.
  3. Copy Mago.

Btw Bison is top tier, stop making excuses. He’s my main and he’s easily #1 in the game because of unblockable st.hk and unavoidable lk scissors pressure. At least with Cammy you need a backthrow to score an unblockable. Bison just needs st.hk and it’s a free hit every single time. What’s even worse is that Capcom have nerfed his sk and buffed his st.hk which is clearly the unblockable since Vanilla.

6029

I’m gonna assume the last post was some sort of sarcasm or something.

6030

Thought gief was +1 after Spd into LP green hand. No?

6031

Oni max damage with 4 bars and no ultra is 522 I think (st.hp xx lk slash FADC cr.hp xx lk slash FADC cr.mp, b+mp~hp xx hk tatsu/hp srk) But its usually not worth the extra 2 meter over just dropping the second FADC and going for cr.mp, b+mp~hp xx hk tatsu straight away. (438 damage)

6032

So gouken pretty much has almost all of his issues directly addressed. One thing for sure is that with DWU he is going to be incredibly annoying to pressure standing or on wakeup. Maybe not have the best options, but probably most annoying/frustrating.

Depending on the pushback on cr mp, and the hitbox expansion on lp palm, he might get crmp -> cr lp xx lp palm. A low hit confirm. Not sure how viable it would be, but better than cr lk lp palm.

More options to deal with focus with st lk cancels. Just to change up the timing a bit. Not much but its something. With red focus coming in, I’m actually not too sure how it will turn out.

So yea, depending on how they tweak it, I think Gouken can go to mid high tier. This is just off of first impressions though.

6033

Nope, Bison is retarded. Nerfing st.hk from a further distance didn’t address the issue, it’s unblockable.

Apparently Bison and Vega will be top tier cause of DWU, but it looks like Twitter whine to me.

I wish online was good enough to learn Akuma, don’t have time to go offline all the time. Random setups cause people refuse to block online don’t help me in the long run.

Also are there any other Rose players to look out for? Besides Louffy and Filipino Man. I’m on a Rose hype for some reason. Just bored of my character I guess. I know there’s a Japanese one, but I can’t remember his name…

6034

(posted in wrong thread)

6035

Tiaflatte.

6036

Keshikaran.

6037

rosetukaidesu

Haven’t seen him play in a while though.

6038

Uryo plays rose as well

6039
6040

Osht, thanks guys.

0:53 Lol, I would be salty.