5861

He also thinks it is in Dee Jay’s favour. I guess we will keep the numbers this way.

5862

I mean that makoto has no “unwinnable” matches because of her burst damage/stun.

She has many weak points in more or less all matchups, but she still goes even/wins most of those because she can kill the opponent with 2 good reads.

That’s why your statement was pretty useless 4 years into the game

5863

Naruo also started playing with Oni, and he beats Mago most of the games.

5864

They don’t want to give up their low tier warrior status which kinda gives them another excuse for losses by blaming their character.

I remember when Sakura was slowly climbing the tier list to the top, so many of those warriors couldn’t stop crying about how “she can’t be top she so weak!”.

Tier whores > low tier warriors. Any day of the week.

5865

I hate low tier warriors, ESPECIALLY the ones who call you out on your own character of choice

Some people just find pride in “winning against all odds” and they dont realize that just because they won with a lesser character that does not necessarily make them a better player than if they won with a better character. Plus of course theres what mettalicaband said, if you lose and you were using a shitty character you have yet another thing to blame instead of realizing your own inability to play well

5866

Looks like the Capcom Cup version of Ultra Street Fighter IV is going to be in Japan for another location test.

5867

Nope. If he plays the character online, it’s his new main. Just like Latif mained Fei Long and it was news on Event… Oh wait…

5868

ONI is bottom five. End of discussion. Carry on please.

5869

  1. So I’m a low tier warrior now, yeah ok. I played N. Ryu in ST, Akuma in A3, Makoto in 3s, Rikou in Vampire Savior, Millia Rage in Guilty gear, etc. I just play who I enjoy using most. Tier whores and low tier warriors both miss the point of games which is to have fun. That’s all I’m concerned about.

  2. When I asked most of you why Oni is solid mid tier. The response I got was Wao found out about footsies! Wao is winning! Sorry if those aren’t exactly convincing arguments. Opinions made just cause one guy did well with a character most aren’t familiar with. BTW tiers are all about matchups

Disadvantaged: 22
Advantaged: 9
Even: 8

Those are Wao’s numbers.

Disadvantaged: 25
Even: 14

Those are the SRK tier list numbers.

Do either of those set of numbers strike you as upper or solid mid tier? If Oni was better than half the cast, he would end up with more advantaged matchups than disadvantaged. It is incredibly lopsided in the opposite direction though.

Anyways this discussion is going nowhere. It is like Galileo trying to convince everyone the world is round. “But it looks flat!” “But Wao did well!” Lol

5870

I believe Oni was on the list of free match up numbers. Also it is not surprising when someone who mains the character thinks that their main character is not very good… We have seen this way too many times now.

Also hasn’t Sanford been saying Oni is a top character for some time now? even Justin Wong gave this character a A rank while Ken was ranked B on his list.

Remember when the Japanese players ranked Seth as a C tier character? Perhaps we are doing the same thing.

5871

To be fair, he admitted that he(Wao) wasn´t sure or had no clue about certain matchups like Ibuki(?), Hakan or Dan and some others(yet they got all different numbers btw), so I would take some of his matchup numbers with a grain of salt.

Do you know that EX Tiger Uppercut is the reason, why Hakan gets easily beaten, by one of his actually good matchups with the name Sagat?

5872

Dat float state

5873

At least Wao provided explanations for many match ups in addtion to being the best Oni. Justin Wong doesn’t play the character, and a lot of people thought his numbers were fucked up (concerning other characters and their rank). Sanford kelly provided no explanation for his line of thought. So objectively looking at this putting petty personal opinions aside, what is the obvious thing to trust most? I shouldn’t have to say it.

Also ignoring Wao’s numbers and then using a 2nd hand unconfirmed twitter that says Wao claims Oni is top tier to support your viewpoint is plain hypocrisy.

MMM even if you don’t agree with it, mains the character and provided explanations for his numbers. What is the opposing argument based on? Wao looks good, Wao plays footies. Tiers are all matchups, if you want to change Oni on the tier list. Then why don’t you provide explanations for all of his matchups and why they are advantaged or disadvantaged? Oh can’t do that? Yet you’ll flat out ignore what the best Oni said, and the only SRK member to explain all his matchups and give numbers…cause you are wowed by some vids. Somehow I’m the one being stubborn, even though I play the character and watched those same vids and actually give some credit to the numbers provided by MMM and especially Wao.

It really is no wonder most of the better players stick to their character forums and stay away from the general threads.

5874

To answer your question: The players playing the game at a higher level.

Also a tier list and a match up list are not the same thing. You have absolutely lost your mind if you think Abel is a higher tiered character than Sakura, Ibuki and Yun

5875

A tier list is often adding up all of the match up numbers. Then ranking the characters according to that. This is pretty much how most work.

Tournament viability is IMO a different thing. Perhaps a character has half 3-7 and half 7-3…that would be a lot worse than a character with all 5-5s despite the numbers adding up the same.

As far as who to trust, well Wao and MMM gave explanations about their views on Oni. They also play the characters. That’s why I trust them. Itabashi said Oni was bottom 10. So if you want to take every random opinion of a top player that has no explanation there you go.

5876

Opinions can change though. No one expected an Oni to get as far as it did in Topanga. I’m sure opinions are changing indefinitely on him. Lots of characters don’t get enough representation at all. Oni is getting used by a lot of people now and I really think opinions are gonna change. I play one of the most under represented characters who not many people still don’t know the matchup for and she’s been here longer than Oni.

Eternal have at least 15 excellent posts on why Oni isn’t even a bottom tier character and can see mid tier exactly which should be an accurate representation of almost every character in the game. They can all dominate when played by top level players who have the reactions and execution for almost anything.

5877

Yeah, but at NEC he played Oni and didn’t qualify out of pools. I’m not sure how much experience he has with this character.

5878

Tiers are not all about matchups. A character that has say 150 match up points but only because he is 8-2 versus the worst characters in the game isn’t the same tier as character who is 150 match up points but goes 8-2 versus the best characters in the game.

Match up numbers only tell part of the story just as tier placement only tells part of the story. Who you dominate is almost as important in terms of efficacy as who you lose to.

Also, you yourself refuse to answer if Wao / Mago stated Oni was top tier would it change your opinion. You did mention that Wao “explained” his reasonings behind his match ups which you so often quote.

Yet:

I don’t really see almost anything resembling an explanation as to why Oni wins or loses the match up. Just “play properly” or “footsies” only maybe Rose, Gouken, Gen, Chun does he put any effort into explaining whatsoever.

So. hypothetically speaking, if Wao came out and changed his mind and said “oni is strong/top tier” would it change your opinion at all? Because you put a lot of weight into Wao’s views on the subject, which is understandable given his status as the best Oni player bar none.

If you are still insistent on Wao explaining why he believes Oni is top tier (again hypothetical) which is a perfectly reasonable request. I think you need to stop bringing up his match up list that he did almost no explanation for. You can’t pick and choose which parts of Wao’s views to accept or request explanations for while allowing others to pass through without explanation.

5879

I’ve seen him at majors since last year and he was always doing MM leveling up his Oni.

5880

Hypotheticals are damn useless. Sorry. Besides which no one here seems to give a shit about Wao’s opinions that he has given so far, so why should a second hand twitter be brought up? His explanations are far from detailed in his original views on matchups, but at least he goes over different matches and says who he feels has the advantage. That is still worlds better than the braindead statement “So and so is top tier!” Besides which it isn’t even a conversation

Oni is his sub. He has been playing him since AE vanilla. However when he is serious (like when he went up against PR Rog, Justin Wong, whoever) he uses Sagat his main.

Eternal would anything make you change your opinion? You’ve been screaming upper mid tier for an eternity long before Wao’s success. You pick up any useless crap like some weeklies with weak competition to point out “See look!” You talk about Oni has this or that that is strong. I could make a case for Gouken being strong by talking about the good stuff he has too.

Anyways waste of time, you guys can continue to discuss Oni. However maybe play him if you actually want to know what you are talking about.