4341

I think Rico Suave these days is like a rare pokemon that only appears when the moon in a certain phase.

4342

Haha, nah, I think actually Rico is the no.1 Abel player in the west. Juicebox kinda retired from SF4, and 801 Strider doesn’t travel. Rico Suave was in quite a lot of tourneys, lately. Last week he finished on 9th at The fall classics.

What do you think of Zangief vs Honda matchup ?

Oppinions are kinda split on this one. Veggey and Sharin swear this match is terrible for Zangief. Hoodaman and Snake Eyez also think is 6-4 Honda’s favour. But Meansaltine and Mr.Snk say is 5-5, and twg Arthur - 6-4 gief’s favour.

I usually thought this match is in honda’s favour, but after spending more time in training mode, I’m not that sure anymore.

  • nj Hp is a pain to deal for gief, but if I’m not mistaken, his U2 shuts it off.
  • Zangief can punish both Hp and Mp headbutt with Ex green hand
  • footsie battle is kinda evenish. Honda far Hk/hp/cr jab are solid, but Zangief has very good answers with far Mp - fantastic range, only slightly less than Honda’s far Hk, but much faster. Gief’s far Mk has crazy range, outranges everything Honda has, but has terrible frame advantage. Lp Spd outranges Honda’s cr Lp.
  • Honda’s Ex Hb is still a pain to deal with, but once gief knocks honda down, Sumo is in a lot of trouble.
  • On Honda’s part, he has a ton of character specific combos on gief. We can do triple hands combo (cr jab xx hands - hands - hands) for 271 dmg meterless, builds a ton of meter and works both on a crouching and standing gief.

While I don’t think Honda loses this one, I’m leaning toward even. What do you think ?

Another match I thought about lately: Honda vs Ken.
Everybody lists this one as 4-6 Ken’s favour, but I really don’t understand why. Ryu beats Honda because he has a good fireball and a strong zoning game. But Ken’s fireball is significantly worse than Ryu’s and he is not known as a good zoner.
So how come Ken has a worse fireball and a worse zoning game, but he still beats Honda same as Ryu ? It doesn’t make much sense to me.
I would say Honda vs Ken is mostly even. Both characters cannot play their favourite game. Honda needs to get in, while Ken has to mostly rely on zoning. Maaybe 4.5-5.5 Ken’s favour. But a clear 4-6 ? I don’t know, am I missing something ?

What do you think of this match, Shinebox ?

4343

Keoma

4344

If we are using danisen rankings…here are the # of players representing said character in the top 100.

Ryu=3
Ken=4
Honda=3
Ibuki=4
Mak=1
Duds=1
Seth=3
Gouken=2
Akuma=2
Gen=1
Dan=0
Sak=5
Oni=1
Yun=6
Juri=3
Chun=1
Sim=5
Abel=4
Viper=5
Bison=3
Sagat=8
Cammy=4
DJ=0
Cody=2
Guy=0
Hakan=0
Yang=4
Eryu=2
Guile=1
Blanka=3
Gief=2
Ruf=4
Elf=0
Vega=0
Rog=3
Fei=4
Hawk=1
Adon=4
Rose=1

Danisen ranking system would be awesome for online in Ultra, but u can’t determine character strength by it. Tournaments are the only way to objectively look at character strength.

4345

Depends a lot on the format. As the saying goes in Finnish Magic circles: “When shit gets paired against shit, shit wins.”

4346

Didn´t those rankings started with AE? I mean ,this means that those, who changed their main characters like Daigo and had a lot of points would be included more than one time. Do not forget the change of AE to AE2012 lol.
Not a good indicator:

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/SSF4_Ranking/status/207440735572725760

4347

What is this danisen ranking you guys are talking about ? a link, something ?. Is it the same as kyosuke rankings ?

4348

True those rankings started in AE, so that is another thing faulty about them. My point is look at how there are 8 Sagats, this would make him sit alone in top tier. Dhalsim would be in upper tier cause he has 5 representatives. It doesn’t reveal character strength at all.

4349

Can we be real about Sagat. He sees play because hes fucking cool and as a char he is overall well liked. Its not because he is some incredibly effective character. His popularity actually proves that point. All that exposure and he STILL cant win majors consistently.

He’s the King, no shit hes popular.

Hakan low tier jesus titty fucking christ

4350

Popular ?
Yeah kinda.
I still feel like the old days of Vanilla Sagat has something to do with him still being played tho.
But then again, everyone pretty much deserted from Yun after Edition 2012, so who knows…

4351

It is the ranking system they use for Japanese arcades.

4352

This is a tangent, not an argument against your example specifically,this line just made me think of it: I don’t think it’s useful to discount a dominant option because it can be shut down by an ultra. If it’s basically free damage except for being punished by an ultra, then it’s still free damage for half of your life. The ultra is really only a balancing factor if the player isn’t aware enough to switch to another tactic or the character has literally nothing else going for them. Sure, the ultra prevents it from being a free win, but that doesn’t mean getting a gigantic life lead for free isn’t a big deal.

4353

First and Foremost, Ken doesn’t need to burn his entire meter to punish EX Headbutts. But below I pointed out the biggest differences in how I take advantage of this match up. You can be a little more careless with Ken whereas with Ryu you have to be very patient. If you make mistakes with Ken you can reset the situation easily with coward copter, for Ryu you can’t.

Advantages Ryu has over Ken against Honda
Better Fireball Recovery and start up
5 active frame low attack cr.MK
cr.MK > Fireball is a true block string
st.HK is an excellent anti air
Can punish blocked EX Headbutt with Super

Advantages Ken has over Ryu against Honda
Horizontial Range on SRK is very noticeable, he doesn’t need to throw fireballs at the same range as Ryu, the additional recovery becomes a non issue
Can get under Honda with his step kick or Kara his SRK against the neutral jumps
Coward copter tatsu (he can run away if cornered)
cr.MK starts up in 4 frames and has a total frame count of 22 i.e hard to punish
cr.HK can be used to poke because it’s only -6 on block
Can punish blocked EX headbutt with F+MK
s.HK is a good poking tool that moves him forward
Two overheads one of them can be faked forcing you to react and lose charge
several of Ken’s normals are +7 on hit
EX Air Tatsu can be ambigious

If anything, I think Super Ryu was worse for Honda than AE2012 Ryu
-He didn’t have a hurtbox in front is his cr.MK
-his solar plexus strike hurt
-He was able to run away from you whenever he felt like it

BUT… Honda was a better character in Super

Overall, Ryu has stronger tools but Ken has more of them. I am positive I didn’t list all of them because that would take entirely too long.

4354

I’m not discounting nj Hp, but I’m saying gief has options against it, he is not free.

And where can I see these rankings ?

I agree with the rest, but I’m pretty sure Ken can’t punish Ex Headbutt with step kick, since Step kick has 11 frame start, while Ex Hb has only -8 on block.
But he can punish Hp and Mp with it, which is quite good.

4355

http://ssfranking.com/

4356

You know, I don’t like this kind of reasoning, but after watching bonchan vs Xiaohai set, I must admit that I’m starting to doubt Sagat vs Cammy is even…

4357

Bleh, you’re right it wasn’t EX Headbutt it was HP and MP @_@

4358

SSF ranking has the highest ranks for 3S and ST Dan rankings. there’s a more complete list at Game Versus website though it’s in Japanese.

http://www.game-versus.net/danisen/grade.html

4359

Wait what, it’s listed as…?
check
Oh. Oh dear.

Gentlemen, I think we need a fix.

4360

My cammy matchup chart

Even
Balrog

Advantage
Everyone Else