SSF4 AE 2012 Tier List Thread (OP last updated May 2014)

[Warlike]

Does Gen even have a reliable way to get rush down characters off of him?

EX gekiro.

Besides that, there is nothing wrong with a good oldfashioned blocking/throwtech OS. For divekick characters s.mp pretty much destroys any hardcore divekicks from Rufus or Yun. Oh and shit like scissor kicks from Bison get stuffed by mashing hands on wake up, this depends on the distance it was done though. Same for akumas s.rh

@ Nevermore: I cannot speak for others but to me it is a lot more fun to play a technically challenging character. It demands more but to me the pay off is amazing. i have Always been naturally drawn to the more technical characters in fighting games, I would never get satisfaction playing Thawk (no offense to any Hawks).

EDIT: mashing s.hp on wake up? Yeah…what? No.

[Nevermore]

Sakura is in a similar boat after a knockdown when she has no meter. Even when she does, some characters can still get on top of her rather easily.

@ Nevermore: I cannot speak for others but to me it is a lot more fun to play a technically challenging character. It demands more but to me the pay off is amazing. i have Always been naturally drawn to the more technical characters in fighting games, I would never get satisfaction playing Thawk (no offense to any Hawks).

I expected that to be an answer by someone, but you can’t include “fun” into balance either since it’s so subjective.

[Warlike]

In a way playing Gen has made me much better at okizeme because there is no clear cut answer with Gen. Gotta make smart use of those dashes on wake up against a grappler, since they like to cross-up jump on wake up, hah.

[Veserius]

I don’t know how Ultras are programmed in. If the first hit goes into a cinematic is it even possible for it not to land all the hits?

Yes. Try it with DeeJay. You can easily get him to land the first hit of his ultra, only to have them fall out of the rest of the hits (talking super>ultra).

His isn’t cinematic though. I mean like Gen’s, Juri’s U2, Yun’s, etc.

sometimes characters fall out of Blanka’s AA u2 after the zoom in, it’s great.

[ilitirit]

I would like everyone to be as strong as Sagat in Vanilla without the LOL combo and Ultra damage. That would make for a really fun game.

[chubbyfingerz]

Absolutely. Let’s make dan kicks +4 on block and gadoken hit triple

[EmblemLord]

take that out and sagat wasnt that strong though that has WAY more to do with his archetype then anything else.

[Komatik]

Still reading page 63, but I have to note it’s amusing that the only sane Cammy player is the one that blufang thought was indefensible.

[ShinAkuma204]

Shin, we are all scrubs around these parts mate. I watch Bonchan video’s religiously. Try not to get too worked up.

I’m not worked up just in shock. If you subscribe to the idea that we (scrubs) can’t accurately detail how a matchup goes (I have no issue with this idea) then why waste so much time discussing it.

I defer to Bonchan’s results in this matchup, which do not support with your interpretation

For what it’s worth I believe Bonchan plays Sagat just about as optimal as any character specialist. I’d even go as far as saying he’s on par with Daigo as far as character loyalty and match up knowledge goes.

Which is why I choose Bonchan as the litmus test for the matchup.(I played him and I can say the matchup does not feel in Akuma’s favor) Some can argue he isn’t the best Sagat in the world (not me) but he is certainly the best at Sagat’s bad matchups.

[ShinAkuma204]

Why are you linking me to an interview I already watched?

Why are you asking me questions about a subject that was dealt with about 200 pages ago?

It’s not rocket science. He is getting that damage because of a BULLSHIT comeback mechanic. In other words, for the most part he is losing against the other player. Why should this give him access to such a high powered move? Yeah, everyone has access to Ultra, but how many of them do that much damage?

I see what you are saying but I still believe that Gen is fine as is, even super/ultra. One of the problems is that players don’t understand how to fight Gen and don’t have a cohesive strategy against him. I have alot of little things for the Gen matchup that many people do not know, even dealing with super/ultra. One way to get them to blow super is to focus the st mk, backdash so that hands hit you airborne and that will cause super to whiff.

Slightly OT - I think many issues with Gen is that people just don’t know how free he is on wake up. Too many people just don’t risk attacking his KD allowing him to just keep stocking meter. Ex gekiro is safe jumpable and makes him use bar and doesn’t lead to significant damage most of the time. This is where to exploit the character if you can.

[Killer_Jigglypuff]

I don’t know how Ultras are programmed in. If the first hit goes into a cinematic is it even possible for it not to land all the hits?

Yes. Try it with DeeJay. You can easily get him to land the first hit of his ultra, only to have them fall out of the rest of the hits (talking super>ultra).

His isn’t cinematic though. I mean like Gen’s, Juri’s U2, Yun’s, etc.

sometimes characters fall out of Blanka’s AA u2 after the zoom in, it’s great.

The best is when people fall out of Viper’s U1 after the first hit. Serves that bitch right. Bitch.

Also the same thing can happen with the last hit of Guile’s U1.

[Nevermore]

Slightly OT - I think many issues with Gen is that people just don’t know how free he is on wake up. Too many people just don’t risk attacking his KD allowing him to just keep stocking meter. Ex gekiro is safe jumpable and makes him use bar and doesn’t lead to significant damage most of the time. This is where to exploit the character if you can.

No, no, that’s not it. Because apparently Gen isn’t free on wakeup. He has an amazing backdash that solves everything according to some in this thread. You know, because there’s no such thing as option selects.

[metallicaband]

Gen’s neutral stance invincibility can be used against auto mode safejump OS sweep though, I’m pretty sure he can block the OS sweep and punish.

That’s pretty much the only thing I want fixed about Gen, I hate these system abnormalities.

[LoyalSol]

The best is when people fall out of Viper’s U1 after the first hit. Serves that bitch right. Bitch.

Also the same thing can happen with the last hit of Guile’s U1.

I actually had a funny incident back when I was first starting the game. I dropped out of Sagat’s Ultra due to a freak circumstance.

Fast forward to 1:29 to see this.

I was so high in the air I bounced off the ceiling.

[Housecnb]

Wakeup invincibility only screws 4f safejumps though, 5-7 frames are the go to options against old man. He only gets 1 extra frame of invincibility.
It’s good answer to the easy safe jump Ryu gets after sweep (he can delay it just a little though), a particular Demon Flip Dive unblockable and… yeah that’s all it’s worth trying, afaik. To not hold a direction still isn’t quite exaclty optimal strategy.

Not defending it, just saying.

Edit: oh yeah, it’s also a lifesaver against Sakura’s corner stuff.

[Rice_Eater]

The best is when people fall out of Viper’s U1 after the first hit. Serves that bitch right. Bitch.

Also the same thing can happen with the last hit of Guile’s U1.

I actually had a funny incident back when I was first starting the game. I dropped out of Sagat’s Ultra due to a freak circumstance.

Fast forward to 1:29 to see this.

I was so high in the air I bounced off the ceiling.

Vanilla footage lol. If only I could take what I know now and go back to the beginning and dominate(locally anyways) with my mediocre skills only because I know all the BS about this game that wasn’t known back then.

[LoyalSol]

The best is when people fall out of Viper’s U1 after the first hit. Serves that bitch right. Bitch.

Also the same thing can happen with the last hit of Guile’s U1.

I actually had a funny incident back when I was first starting the game. I dropped out of Sagat’s Ultra due to a freak circumstance.

Fast forward to 1:29 to see this.

I was so high in the air I bounced off the ceiling.

Vanilla footage lol. If only I could take what I know now and go back to the beginning and dominate(locally anyways) with my mediocre skills only because I know all the BS about this game that wasn’t known back then.

It’s painful for me to go back and watch myself sometimes because I am like “Wow I sucked”

[metallicaband]

Wakeup invincibility only screws 4f safejumps though, 5-7 frames are the go to options against old man. He only gets 1 extra frame of invincibility.
It’s good answer to the easy safe jump Ryu gets after sweep (he can delay it just a little though), a particular Demon Flip Dive unblockable and… yeah that’s all it’s worth trying, afaik. To not hold a direction still isn’t quite exaclty optimal strategy.

Not defending it, just saying.

Edit: oh yeah, it’s also a lifesaver against Sakura’s corner stuff.

You made recheck and I’m only half crazy lol, I’m only familiar with testing setups with Akuma on Gen and even his x2 dash j.hk which is a 7 frame safejump whiffs if Gen leaves the stick on neutral or trying a 5f DF palm safejump also often whiffs.

However I tried a 5 frame safejump with Ryu and it did connect as you said, so the only explanation I have is that Akuma’s safejumps are whiffing because of the active frames running out lol.

Guess it’s not as bad as I thought unless you don’t have many active frames in your jump-ins like Akuma, still hope it’ll be fixed though but I doubt it’ll happen, hell I don’t even know if anyone mentioned it @ CU, I know I didn’t lol.

[blufang]

Who’s bitching? Warlike asked a question. Illitirit and I answered. If we are going to dip back into another internet hyperbole battle, I’ll drop the discussion here.

It’s not bitching about Gen. God how dense is everyone in this topic? Did you even bother reading the post?
If you’re going to reply to my post, then post something intelligent instead of taking shots because I have a Cammy avatar.

Sorry that was rude of me and didn’t contribute anything to the conversation. I just have trouble grasping what is so terrible about Gen’s super to ultra. Here are the reasons why I think it shouldn’t be touched.

1. I’m of the opinion, that if any nerfing is to be done it will be slight and only to the most powerful characters. Sure mid tier and upper mid tier characters may have some very powerful things. However obviously they aren’t overpowered if they don’t put the character into the top 5 or even top 10.

2. It is a trademark of Gen. Same with Akuma teleport, it is something that has been there forever and shouldn’t be removed. As for adjusting the damage I’ll get to that in my next point.

3. There are characters who do 500+ damage on Ultra alone, so what Gen does is maybe 600 or something? That is with using up all 4 bars which he so desperately needs for EX gekiros since his defense is pretty bad.

4. What will be the compensation buffs for this nerf even if just to damage? Cause Gen should be getting overall more powerful in ultra sfiv not weaker.

[Housecnb]

Yeah, it was mentioned as well as the parry glitch, and the air stance change gli… hmm weird behaviour. I don’t think they fix anything either.

Gen’s wakeup only gets 1 extra frame of inv, but the animation will still take a bit longer to resume after that (Gen will be vulnerable, but fully controllable) and the remaining animation has a very weird hurtbox, so that’s probably why you’re having trouble. The DF dive unblockable I mentioned will whiff entirely, even though it remains active after the special frame runs out, because of such hurtbox. He pretty much evades it because he is bending over.

Sfiv stuff we just have to deal with.