It’s not bitching about Gen. God how dense is everyone in this topic? Did you even bother reading the post?
If you’re going to reply to my post, then post something intelligent instead of taking shots because I have a Cammy avatar.
You can see from the videos Ryan was trying hard to get a read on Infiltration and couldn’t do it. Infltration had him figured out that day.
EX Uppercut trades with EX Fireball in Sagat’s favor even from the worst of situations.
Gen is obviously strong, all that stuff. People saying otherwise are stupid.
All I’d like to point out that it’s not because of OP Super>Ultra or BS comeback factors. The current mechanics, or rather the lack of it are pushing him up quite a bit. Things like 90+ frame advantage hard knockdown into simple righ-left mixups, which btw wouldn’t be a problem in any game but sfiv as you have no proper options on dealing with that, stuff we know well.
Also, the Cammy - Gen matchup differs a lot from your average Gen matchup. Very oki oriented fight, where Gen has the better oki, but Cammy has better ways to start it. Cammy gets hit by Hk gekiro confirms, so the meter management from Gen is a lot easier and he’ll have the super much more frequently than he usually does, while also being able to put her on the guessing game on every confirm, which isn’t normally possible.
thing about TK is like…wuts the point right now? combo tool? second hit whiffs except when near point blank. its a high risk in footsies and the reward is paltry. im not a fan of moves that dont serve their intended purpose but im not even sure wut TK is supposed to be right now.
fixing TK is a matter of what u want sagat to be. SFxT Sagat kept the poor damage on second hit but the frame data is actually better than Vanilla SFIV.
Give him s.lk cancel back, low shot recovery back, fix corner ultra glitch, remove trade DP > Ultra by buffing the uppercut to not trade.
Done.
As for the whole Gen debacle, the only thing I’d say is that I think perhaps it does just a tad too much damage. In theory, it isn’t broken or overpowered at all because its a huge expenditure of resources, but I think Gen wouldn’t plummet to bottom tier if it did around 25-50 less damage.
that change to TK gives him a strong frame trap option but thats just one route capcom could go.
I still think its too high. She shits on the scaling system that keeps other characters in check. I kinda think Rufus does the same
I’d rather more characters have solid tools over being built around comebacks.
on another note, this update being announced has most of you putting on your -sf4 is weak/every complaint is scrubby- big boy pants
if we could get back to intelligent discussion for a bit. most of these suggestions that the non chubbyfingerz people have been making are for a better overall game. its not so much about, “is this thing broken?” as it is about lets make changes where intelligent play is more rewarding.
i dont think anyone smart is saying lets just nerf (X) character because its time they get nerfed, even tho you akuma players get sucked in by those arguments like flies on shit.
if you argue with an idiot, he’ll drag you down to his level and then beat you with experience
Warlike
3149
For what it’s worth, I fully realise the potential Gen has and I called that shit back when Xian was still posting in our subforums asking for oga cross-up setups and other stuff. It annoys me because people have no idea what they’re saying in regards to Gen, except for a select few like you and Mike.
You know, let me simplify this for you guys that don’t quite get Gen:
- crazy mix up game (50/50, some unblockables in the corner, oga cross-ups)
- godlike pokes, solid walkspeed in mantis (even faster in crane but…yeah crane lol)
- most dangerous supers in the game I would argue. Best active anti-air 0+1 startup crane and mantis super can be comboed from his main poke bnb and if he ultra, well you know.
- Other players really dont know Gen, stop pressing buttons in the corner if I press s.mp, please.
- Shit health and stun
- Hard time dealing with pressure in general
~ misconception: Gen is not that hard to play as technically as many people think he is. He just requires long combos that use multiple forms of execution like links, piano techniques etc. His stances take getting used to obviously but in the end it is just an extra button press, which becomes second nature after awhile.
What makes Gen hard is that you need to be good at footsies, that’s it.
No they’re not the only two people in the entire world that play Gen at that level. Dakou, Danhiru, Ikego, Rokotsu, etc are all high level Gen players that play him at that level. I’m sorry you’re so sheltered that all you do is watch majors on stream so you don’t know anything about them. I’m not even focusing on them either because THEY’RE NOT THE SUBJECT AT HAND. The subject at hand is Gen as a character and not Xian/Amiyu as players. You also didn’t address ANY counter arguments to why Gen is a good character; instead, you choose to use a general statement like “the entire cast can do that too.” Well, obviously the reason I even addressed his (focus) backdash is because IT’S BETTER THAN MOST OF THE CAST and because people seem to think that Gekiro is his only option as a reversal.
And no, it’s not inexperience because Tokido and Xian have played MANY times before. For example:
Tokido wins the set 3-1 so no…it’s not inexperience. Again, like I said…stop making yourself look so stupid.
gen is upper level execution if you want to take him to tournies and play on different systems and monitors without sound and shit. its simple if you keep to online and/or training mode. but its incredibly difficult to keep up with all those button presses and 1 frame link reliant bnb on a consistent tournament level basis
every input is an opportunity to fuck up.
however, its not a rite of passage in the sense that my character is hard, therefore deserves XYZ
Warlike
3152
If anything this discussion reaffirms how little people know about gen and the people that play him. For the love of god please look up Rokotsu, Amiyu, and Dakou. The first name is known for his crazy ass oga cross-ups that are really unconventional, but pretty insane.
Im just taking this as an oppertunity to promote this little handbook I have been working on regarding Gen:
It contains pretty much all you need to know about Gen in the general sense but also a spreadsheet that has all of the cross-ups for Oga (well the most consistent ones anyway) etc. Still a WIP but even if you do not play Gen it’s still good if you want to learn the match-up or just read up on Gen in general.
EDIT: Dafeetlee already said this, myman.jpg
Oh and btw, how hard a character is should never be a subject of discussion regarding tiers, buffs/nerfs.
Oh god Sagat sucks dick so much, his tiger shot recovery is awful. Like, seriously, who thought this was a good idea?
Started playing around with him since I play him in SFxT and SF4 Sagat is like a gimped 10 year old version of SFxT Sagat
This gets mentioned a lot, but not all characters require the same technical ability at the highest levels of play. I’m not sure why one character should require double or triple the button presses/directional inputs just to compete with a so called “good” character. You could argue that the character being harder to play doesn’t justify them being able to do X or Y tactic, but at the same time, nothing justifies them having to hit all of those buttons either if there’s no real payoff.
Try the rest of the roster, you might be surprised at how much worse most characters are.
Da_Knut
3158
That’s dat shit I don’t like 
Does Gen even have a reliable way to get rush down characters off of him?
I know I’m not that good with him but damn…
I always thought of Amiyu and Rokotsu as more technical Gens while Xian makes excellent reads compared to them.
Apparently focus/backdash or mash st.strong.
