4901

The two big Cerebella nerfs i can think off of the top of my head are the nerf to cerecopter (this mainly effected using her as an assist more then it did using her on point) and the fact that you have to use up the one OTG you are given in order to continue comboing off of her lvl3 Diamond Shot. (you didn’t used to) If anyone remembers any more nerfs, please chime in.

I’m curious if cerebella’s ground-to-air throw was always blockable or if it was originally just treated like Tager’s atomic colider, a free anti-air grapple that you could combo off of, even if you have to use meter/assists in skullgirls to do it. (I don’t remember AC being useful as a reversal, but it was great for scooping out jump-happy arakune’s. Disclaimer: i haven’t played BB since calamity trigger, don’t know how tager functions these days)

4902

shit, that was a thing? damn.

4903

Anyway, this is in response to Chibi’s “What to do?” question.

As far as a review goes, it depends on what you want to do with it. If you want to do a review “just because” then I would say skip it. However, if it is something you would actively use to try and get more ppl into the scene then I would say do that first. A good review can help a lot in that regard. I would advise to make it accessible to non fighting game players if you are going to show it to as many people as possible (i.e. try not to fill it all with fighting game jargon).

Then, as the others have stated, try to do an “Assist Me” type show. Naturally there might not be much to go on at first but this kinda show will go a long way to helping the players grow. Having guests on Skype and/or spotlight matches is a good idea. Maybe you could call it “Co-Starring…” or something (I believe DHCs in this game are called “Co-Star Combos”

Stream everything you can. If the scene can support it, have a weekly tournament/bar fight/casuals etc. Hell, maybe even if you are just gonna get online and grind some games, stream that and let people know. I’m sure a few ppl would tune in for that.

4904

As far as Cerebella nerfs go iirc, I also remember her Diamond Dynamo super being nerfed in some way because it was such a good combo extender or something along those lines.

As for Chibi’s videos:
I like the idea of doing some tutorial/introductory stuff initially to help draw people in. Then I think running sets type of content would be great possibly with some analysis/commentary going on.

EDIT: Also like to add that I also approve of Elboberey’s streaming idea.

4905

I think I remember Ravid stating that they would release characters individually, I’ll try to find the post…

4906

Hey look, notes!

[edit] Hat arms are always supposed to be vulnerable on the active frames and during recovery, so those omissions were mistakes rather than intentional.

Cere nerfs since day 1:

  • Cerecopter given vulnerable boxes on her hat arms (which was the real problem since you couldn’t hit it from a distance at all, it would beat you clean) and startup invincibility removed (less of a problem).
  • j.HP and j.MP given vulnerable boxes on her hat arms also.
  • Diamond Dynamo (Lv1 punch super) recovery is slower so you have to use up your OTG to combo after it and it’s really only possible in the corner. This was a big deal since it got rid of a lot of midstage 5-super combos. However, damage was buffed slightly.
  • Hitstun on j.MP and j.MK changed to remove some easy midstage relaunches.
  • Super grab damage down from 5800 to 5000. (Still the most powerful Lv1.)
  • Super grab recovery longer on whiff.
  • Super grab given vulnerable boxes on her arm on whiff (d’oh).
  • Lv3 damage down from 8500 if you connect with both hits (yeah really) to 5000 if you connect with both hits. (0f after the flash up close, however, and still very worth it as a Lv3 due to combo opportunities…plus the diamond now goes through projectiles, so shut up about it doing the same damage as her super throw.)
  • Range on Diamond Drop (close command throw) decreased.
  • Range on Merry Go-rilla (far command throw) moved away from Cerebella, so the distance it will whiff if the opponent is close to you is larger but it will grab from further away.
  • Throw invincibility on Merry Go-rilla removed.
  • Antiair throw is now only unblockable when the opponent is on the way up and not already in blockstun. This is a BIG DEAL.
  • Air command grab is techable (very tiny window) and no longer grabs vs grounded opponents. Damage buffed, though.
  • Remove armor from the stop part of run->stop. Whoops…
  • Remove upperbody invincibility from Kanchou dodge-behind frames, and remove throw invincibility as well. Thank you, Noel.
  • Kanchou is no longer super cancellable during the dodge, until the hit.
  • Devil Horns (DP+MP) super cancel window reduced.
  • Reflect (DP+LP) damage and hitstun on physical hit down, damage on reflected projectile remains the same.
  • Much harder to OTG with running throw.
  • Stagger shakeable so no guaranteed super grab off running throw, though you can still combo with attacks.
  • OTG bug fixed so that using a throw as an OTG actually uses up your OTG. Whoops.
  • Run->headbutt has less hits of armor (down to 2 from 3).
  • Run->headbutt no longer super-cancellable on landing.
  • General change: Super armor now loses to sweeps and snapbacks flat out. Not true for Hyper armor (her Lv3).
  • Rush punch damage reduced, all 3 are more minus on block.
  • s.WP, s.MK, j.MK damage reduced.
    [edit 2] - s.HP advantage on hit adjusted so that it is no longer possible to simply link a s.LP afterward without a run->stop.
4907

I think her super grab used to move her forward too, and now she stays in place while reaching for the enemy

4908

Thanks for posting this, I really enjoy seeing how things change over time with projects like these :D.
If at all possible could we also see the changes for some of the other characters as well (when you have the time and/or good mood to do it :P)?

4909

…Ouch. That’s… alot of nerfs.

4910

thank you, this was something that really bugged me about mvc2 -> 3.
sounds like i can assume fierce jumpins lose to super armor unlike mvc2 though?

4911

Yep, hard jumpins don’t beat super armor. (Note - in MvC2 it wasn’t all hard jumpins, a few didn’t.) However super armor takes a set number of hits to beat, rather than a variable amount based on hit strength. More like GG than MvC2 in this aspect.

No, her super throw didn’t move her forward - it moves forward after you land it if you’re close to the corner.

It’s not really a ton of nerfs, characters get tweaked all the time as they need. It just turns out she had a lot of mistakes to fix before the real changes happened. I didn’t list buffs though…

4912

well NOW you’ve got me all curious about dem buffs XD

but yeah, wow. you guys are certainly putting in alot of work in these chicks. I like.

4913

I’ve been thinking about Valentine, specifically one tactic. Her backdash is a hop that puts her in the air, allowing her to IAD out of it, right? And she has that aerial where she swings a bonesaw in a halfcircle beneath her, right? So if you combine that, doesn’t that give her a great left/right crossup game, as well as a high/low one? Just something I’ve been thinking about. It seems like it’d be really ambiguous, depending on when she starts the attack.

4914

It’s fairly hard to cross up with backdash->airdash since you’re so low, plus j.HP startup is 17f. It’s a good crossup, but it’s by no means instant. She’s very good at high/lows though.

4915

Out of curiosity, what was it that made you change the anti-air throw and air command grab to what they are now? ( Anti-air throw blockable on the way down, air command grab being techable) Was there no way for the incoming character to escape them after a KO/Snapback or something? Or was it something else? Just curious, not criticizing.

4916

I don’t think incoming characters could deal with it. But I could be mistaken.

4917

AA throw to not being 100% unblockable was not much for the snapback thing, that’s just once…more for the [corner launch, wait, uncombo AA throw, OTG to launch]xN exploit on characters without airdashes. Which nobody found, hah. The only reason it’s not always just blockable is to prevent jump-outs, which is the entire purpose of the move in the first place.
Air command grab being techable was to avoid air combo ticks into it. It’s active for so long that you can’t really mess up, unlike air SPD, and throws aren’t zero frames unlike in the Versus series, so there were situations where other characters had no viable escapes and you had a pretty wide window to succeed.

4918

Would it work on crouching opponents? If so, you use an assist that forces your opponent to block low, then it could guarentee the opportunity to do it.

If you retain momentum after starting the move, then I don’t see the startup being too much of a problem, basically your opponent has to guess whether the momentum will carry you past them or not before the move connects, which could be fairly ambiguous.

EDIT: I realize that I sound like kind of a prick acting like I’m the first to think of this, trying to tell the developer what’s possible in his own game. Sorry Mike, I apologize!

4919

After starting to play MB I’m open towards two button throws, but if they are done like MB rather than like BB.

4920

Haha, the Potemkin/Tager unblock setups with assists. Couldn’t possibly be a problem!

That alone would have made for Cerebella + good assist that locks in an incoming character to have Marvel style unblocks that are super easy, for those who can’t figure it out. Probably possible to see a character jumping, do assist that puts them in blockstun in the air then get free unblock. That kind of “grab” just sounds nasty in a game with assists.

The state inconsistency seems weird though :expressionless: Was there a cleaner way of fixing that at all?