It’s the same kind of reasoning that made it impossible to really delve into the rest of the lower tiers in Marvel 2. I mean, Ruby Heart was hella interesting, but since there were other characters that were so much better than her that did her exact same options, what was the point?
There’s merits to finding things when trying to overcome something as well (like how Sentinel suddenly became a boss when proper fly/unfly was discovered) but it can also just straight-up hold things back.
Vulpes
1562
Complaints about nerfing Hornet Bomber stemmed from: Making it worse at all levels of play for the sake of bad bad players who were too lazy to find a way around it
What the change with the green tech on assist knockdowns is: Still making it worse, duh, but in a way that it’s the same if you play with a brain and only worse if you mindlessly mash around, so no effect at all for higher levels of play while at the same time helping out the bad bad players
The issues with nerfs for the “lower level” players are, that they usually affect highlevel play as well - things which are good at higher levels shouldn’t become shitty there just because the lower players demanded it. Balance should be done with the higher players in mind.
What this change however does is pretty much not affect highlevel play at all (people will still be able to OTG from their assists, it’s just a bit harder) while at the same time tremendously helping the lower levels of play not turn into a mindless swamp where people mash out assist, see it hit, go masturbate, come back, then combo.
If Mike had proposed this change at the time the Hornet Bomber debate came up, I would’ve been all in for it. The changes which are/were done (removing invincibility, making comboing after it impossible, whatever else) however affect all levels of play the same way, thus pretty much invalidating the assist as a whole at higher levels for the sake of lower players (see above: this is bad), and I didn’t come up with any better idea to make changes to Bomber which help at lower levels without hurting the high ones, so I was against changing it as a whole.
Sidenote: Even if I thought the changes to Bomber were sensible, the fact that it got changed “against Mikes will” due to popular demand, would leave a sore knot in my throat. This change now seems to be more of a “We didn’t think of this before but we like it” than a “We’re gonna preemptively nerf all assists to avoid people complaining even though we think they’re perfectly fine”, so that’s a bonus.
dralla
1563
Ah your missing the point, if something is so good will thy not just jump on the bandwagon? Is that not why 90% of serious Mvc 2 players use the same combination of what 6 characters? That game has had what 10 years to develop a community. Rlabs cant take that risk in this market especially as a new game in an entrenched market.
But like I said, it’s still one-hit and, if blocked, can be punished. The Lariat & Gustaff Fire were powerful because of their lockdown ability and the fact that they were GTFO assists. Plus it was hard to punish them (in MvC3). Parasoul’s Napalm Pillar has it’s faults, and they’re more obvious than the two previously mentioned assists.
A combination of old and new sentinel drones, psylocke’s AA and a beam assist sure sounds broken to me.
People will still have to deal with Hornet Bomber assist. It hasn’t been wiped out of the game. The fact that it’s weaker means that it’s a little bit easier to deal with it, but that also means people can’t just pick Hornet Bomber as an assist and instantly cover all bases. This will force them to find other assists to make their teams work, and may even force some people who currently play X/Double to use three characters so that they still cover all bases via assist. In aggregate there nerf should introduce more creativity than it stifles.
How about making changes with both high and low level players in mind? I like what Mike said about how the Hornet Bomber change will alleviate the concerns of low and mid level players while still leaving it viable for advanced ones. The moment someone decides that one group of players should get more attention, the concerns of the low level players will always prevail. There are fewer high level players than there are lower level ones and the high level players are supposedly better at adapting to change anyway. Don’t create a war of influence between high and low level players. The low level players will always win.
Not necessarily off of every block though. Remember, you still have your point character to apply pressure. For example, if I am up close, and I call pillar, and you block it, I can get a mix up with my point during that block string, or just simply keep Parasoul safe
This. People who have trouble with it now will still have trouble with it post patch.
Agreed. And that makes the assist kind of situational, since you have to be on top of them. Napalm Pillar also pushes them back if blocked, and can be pushblocked, making it harder to get in.
Pertho
1568
It had a funny angle with the gap at the bottom. Worse is that we had videos on how to deal with it already. It was good but it wasn’t going to stop certain characters from getting you since it didn’t reach as high as pillar and updo (and painwheel don’t give a fuck about either). Regardless of it still hella good.
Yo check out the combo thread. I’ve been updating it the past couple of days and put some of your combos except they were missing notations. Give it a double check and let me know if I messed up when you get a chance.
fuck reading all this stuff about NP assist getting nerfed makes me wish they just make it so you can recover in the air and really give people something to complain about. while youre at it make the point version un cancellable as well.
Thinking about it now I prefer not to get into that whole “it’s good but you can deal with it” line of discussion. The important point is whether the game will be better or worse after the change. If the game becomes more fun after Hornet Bomber gets nerfed, then it doesn’t matter that you could deal with it already before. Same for green tech or IPS or any other changes. Heck, I don’t even care if the change makes things more or less creative or skillful or whatever. As long as Mike makes the game more fun I’m all for it.
Of course, it’s a little difficult to define fun. I just liken it to UMVC3. That game has a lot of problems, but it’s undeniably fun to play. If I could find three characters I liked and could play in a team I never would have quit.
I put a response in the thread. Just corrected a small typo and shared the “patch-proof” combo I am currently using. I’m really hoping Mike’s nerfs to green vial and j.hp don’t completely invalidate all the practice I’ve been doing so far.
I say Argus Agony should knock down.
>:F
I think the point of custom assists was to find one that suited your team.
Problem is, pre-patch HK Hornet Bomber suits basically EVERY team. Zoning? Push them full screen. Pressuring? Keep them in block stun and mix them up at the last overhead attack. People in your face? Do it. Someone in the air? Do it.
It just literally does everything. However, the one true problem it had was being invincible until WAY PAST the first active frame. It was a mistake, and that’s not my opinion. Every DP is invincible in startup, but they’re either invincible before active frames (Pillar), during the first few (LK Fiber Upper) or somewhere in between (MK Fiber Upper). But with an invincible attack, most of them (even Pillar) can be stuffed. There is literally no move in the entire game (save for Fortune’s Level 3) with enough invincibility to stuff it point blank, no matter the degree of invincibility. Hell, Fortune’s Level 3 doesn’t stuff it, just makes it whiff.
The only way to stuff it is in the latter half, where Pillar and any other invincible moves will easily take care of it. But this is only ever remotely a problem for Peacock, who is throwing shit anyways so she doesn’t care because you’re far away.
The good news is I’ve learned to deal with HK Hornet Bomber. The bad news is that it doesn’t make Hornet Bomber any less useful for 80% of the player base. So yeah, nerf bat is sad but it will improve the game.
And before I get the whole “people should learn to get around it”, I will counter with “you should probably learn to REALLY use it”.
Does the auto-correct on assists bother anyone besides me? Was it like that in MvC2?
At least you couldn’t AA, level 3 item drop, AA.
Dime
1575
if someone knows HOW to use it (which is absolutely braindead easy) then no, it isnt very easy to counter, also, that assists best use isnt even to keep away (which is one reason why i laugh whenever someone mentions “getting in on it”) … lol not every character is peacock or parasoul. if you get cornered against that assist… good luck. all the opponent has to do is knock you down then backdash and call bomber… EVERY option is covered besides maybe invincible reversal into dhc.
seriously i cant see how people see that assist as anything less than imbalanced. its to good in to many ways and makes most other assists in the game obsolete when doing a direct comparison.
the ONLY reason why more people arent complaining about it is that they either quit the game or picked up double herself or have no double to play against or dont want to come off “scrubby” on the forums (and dont even say for one instant that that isnt a predominant reason for half the shit that people say)
anywho, yeah… im actually glad for the double nerfs (to the assist) it will allow more creativity for other assists to more come into play and the small amount of creativity it stifles via trying to find counters for it, pales in comparison to the things it will open up.
-dime
Pobega
1576
It bugs me. If I cross you up before the assist lands, it should fly in the original intended direction.
Pertho
1577
Dude its only been two months. Considering that fighting games have taught to be patient and really spend time analyzing something before I call it broken, I’m always going to opt to just wait and see.
At this point I use Double only if the other guy is.
Which is unfortunately everyone lol
But could you use George’s Day Out? Make it knockdown INTO the bomb? 
Rather take that than two AAs.
