SFxT General Discussion Thread rev.B

[MuayGio]

Being negative on block means I can’t continue normal pressure because I’ll eat a counter hit if I do. In all fighting games, being negative frames but not punishable either means the end of your momentum or the start of your opponent’s counter pressure. But if I’m -2 on block and you don’t press a button, then my -2 becomes in fact a +0 or +1 and I can continue to pressure you (because you hesitated). So by over-respecting the reversal possibility, you in fact negate my frame disadvantage. And if you do stick something out, then like I said, you take the risk of eating a reversal, counter or launcher. So that’s the “50/50” of being negative frames: Your opponent either reverses the pressure, baits or gets baited.

Agreed. Isn’t this just the definition of abare?

I’m not sure why we’re even arguing because come to think of it there’s really nothing to argue about. o_O Yes, being negative on hit/block is a bad thing and it’s better to be +3 on block than -3 on block… duh? But leaving yourself to appear vulnerable is a legit bait tactic. In fact, that’s pretty much what footsies are all about.

Agreed again.

any knowledgeable player is well aware that, unless your move is punishable, reversals are a real possibility. Most good players of this game have eaten shoryukens this way in the past, so they’re wise to it and you’re left with nothing more than a frame disadvantage.

The bolded bit is what’s causing the confusion here, darknid. I don’t really blame Vulcan Hades for extrapolating arguments when you were so unclear.

The knowledgeable players you cite here are “wise to” the threat of reversals from - frames --> ??? --> You’re left with nothing more than frame disadvantage (PROFIT!)

What are these knowledgeable players doing to invalidate the threat of reversals from frame disadvantage? Are they poking? No, because they’d eat a reversal. Are they jumping, throwing? No, because they’d eat a reversal. Backdashing? Maybe, but then they’d lose their frame advantage.

What everyone probably thought you meant is that they are blocking, because that’s what you do against a threat of a frame advantage reversal. And if they’re blocking, then Hades was right in his assessment that by not exploiting their frame advantage for fear of the opponent’s reversal, they are giving up that frame advantage.

What option are you thinking of that both invalidates the possibility of reversals from - frames and retains your frame advantage?

And btw being in negative frames can be good

Hades, I think this is what upset Darknid so much, in the sense that here you seem to be saying that being in negative frames is legit good, whereas below you clarify that obviously being at frame advantage is better than being at disadvantage, because you have more options, and better options, but being at frame disadvantage presents a few unique options and baits that you can exploit. Which, like you said, there shouldn’t really be much argument over.

We need to learn how to play at frame disadvantage just as much as we need to know how to exploit frame advantage.

Edit: BTW if my previous post on this sounds much more negative about the possibility of playing effectively from frame disadvantage, that’s because I hadn’t fully thought it through until you discussed it further, Hades

[Darknid]

stuff

EDIT: Oh, this post is now off-topic. Thread got flooded with new posts.

Simply put, we’ve got a lot of common ground and all I was trying to say is that a -2 is a -2 is a -2, and there’s no getting around that it’s a disadvantage. The whole thing brought to mind a discussion in the balance thread about Asuka’s character design(which I thought needed a tweak), and I objected to the whole negative frame/baiting concept as substitute for a real pressure game.

[Intuitive2011]

Hey everybody, it’s good to see this board so active! I was wondering, would anybody like to be interviewed by me in regards to this game? I’ve composed a few for my blog months ago, I done one with Jozhear and another with G of the Ken forums.

You’ll be more likely to be picked if you play obscure characters like Yoshimitsu, Dhalsim and Asuka. But, EVERYBODY will be considered. I aim to try and interview four people of this fantastic community.

Thanks for your potential help, guys.

[Menen]

Screw you Sethlol

Screw you Joe Lewis

This is what I like to see lol, ^.^. No spectator frame data nerds calculating. Just two good players that just want to kick each other’s butt, this is why people like marvel. Forget your strategic frame data shut up and fight!

Oh and the popcorn is extra salty.

http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-09-Psych.gif

[Juri_kills_friend]

Hey everybody, it’s good to see this board so active! I was wondering, would anybody like to be interviewed by me in regards to this game? I’ve composed a few for my blog months ago, I done one with Jozhear and another with G of the Ken forums.

You’ll be more likely to be picked if you play obscure characters like Yoshimitsu, Dhalsim and Asuka. But, EVERYBODY will be considered. I aim to try and interview four people of this fantastic community.

Thanks for your potential help, guys.

Do me and money inc!!!

[Jamp]

In AE she would be a beast and have a really mean vortex, but in this game not so much.

I agree. She feels a lot like Poison, really good tools that are gimped by the game mechanics themselves.

Not sure if I’ll keep playing her but I need someone to go with Alisa >.<

[FrostyAU]

Need a general ruling on something from the heart of the SFxT community. This weekend looks like my first run at being Melbourne Australia’s SFxT Tournament Organizer. I’ve decided to run rules allowing boost gems that are NOT purchased with DLC, but I know there are some players who use assist gems such as Cross Assault extend, life extend etc. So my question is, for tournament play should ANY assist gems be allowed? I personally am impartial to either, but I want to go with a choice the community is united in.

Awesome, sounds good. I’m not in Melbourne at the moment but if you give me a date with a few weeks notice I should be able to come up.

As for gems, I personally want to use the gems, I think they add an interesting element to the game without changing the fundamental nature of it. Kind of like runes and masteries in a game like LoL.

I wouldn’t want to see anyone use auto - block / tech gems and I think using DLC gems is kind of morally wrong, it’s also unfair on the TO to need to have them downloaded for each of the consoles.

[Akhos]

This is what I like to see lol, ^.^. No spectator frame data nerds calculating. Just two good players that just want to kick each other’s butt, this is why people like marvel. Forget your strategic frame data shut up and fight!

Oh and the popcorn is extra salty.

Thumbs up for the psych reference.

Also, I’ve been considering trying out a Ryu/Raven team. Does that make me a bad person?

[chaoslimits]

Ok Time for me to RANT.

90% of the people who still play this game are terrible. This is due to the following reason

1. They do not go beyond day 1 tactics and look into the game mechanics that separate THIS from SF4
2. Their team chemistry is terrible because they only know one character well
3. They rely on Gimmicks and the illusion that "I will win because they have never seen this before
4. They have shitty fundamentals because they play SFxT like SF4 with two life bars
5. They dont know combos that actually mean something. They go “flashy” stuff instead that is nice to look at but they wouldnt be able to explain why they do it outside of “It does a lot of damage”
6. They have no one to play with and are too lazy to scout out people online
7. They spend too much time in ranked match and never stepped foot in training mode.
8. Don’t anylyze matchs or characters to figure out why they are losing or why they are winning.
9. Were SF4 Rejects and just play it like its “SF5”
10. Just bad at fighting games

90% of the people fall in more than 1 of the following categories. Its sad because im really starting to like this game. I should not be bodying people with Jack/Hugo the way I have been. I enjoy this game a lot but I cant learn anything if the majority of the people just lose to Jack X because they dont block Low and Jump in on me. =/

This causes me major grief. I’m too stupid to accept that people online are as you described and expect the to play smart.

[Maverick_Hunter_X]

Thumbs up for the psych reference.

Also, I’ve been considering trying out a Ryu/Raven team. Does that make me a bad person?

I think Raven/Heihachi would be a better team. Raven is capable of getting close with his teleport mix-ups, giving openings for Heihachi to murder your opponent. If I’m not mistaken, both Ryu and Raven are considered top-tiers in this game.

[Joe_Lewis_1]

Just going to state out some facts. Before the tournament started, the results were 5-4 in the money match for 10. Law x Kuma vs Rufus x Jack. We all know that Gridman is a better player than you and he uses Jack. I don’t know who’s Law x Kuma team you beat with Jack, but it wasn’t mine. If what you say is true about Jack beating that team super easy, then I should of been bodied from the start, but that’s not the case. Gridman and I ran it back in winners final. Score was 3-0 (me). In losers final, it was Dieminion vs Gridman. Dieminion switched to Bob and Hwoarang, because Guile does not do well against Jack. I watched their match in winners bracket and it was one sided. When they both trade projectiles, Jack recovers in time to combo Guile with another projectile. The switch didn’t work and I believe the score ended up being 3-0 (Gridman). In grand finals, Gridman reset the brackets 3-2, and then he loses 3-1.

I don’t understand your argument about my team being a giant gimmick. The team has solid damage with easy hit confirms and great synergy. If you feel that you can expose this gimmick, we can money match the next time we see each other at another tournament.

The only one I felt that didn’t know the match up at all with Kuma is Chris G. He wasn’t aware of the overhead and it cost him a game. Everyone else on the other hand didn’t get caught by any of Kuma’s special.

If anyone has any questions about the tournament, I’ll try and answer them. I had a great time at Summer Jam. I’m glad that I could “try” to show that other characters can be tournament viable. I put in a lot of time into this game and it’s good to actually have some results. Honestly, what gets me the most is if I were to win with Ryu/Kazuya or something I’d be top tier whoring. If I win with Law x Kuma, it’s a gimmick. SMHlololol.

Race to 10 for 200. Lets go. NEC; Ill be there Ill be glad to take your money if you want. I’m just going to be honest, Gridman and myself are better players than you and I know that Gridman will never lose to that shit again after this weekend. Its just how it is; If you don’t think any of this is true, prove me wrong.

And I would hope Gridman is better than me considering I’m still relearning the game- I only picked this up game because I wanted to play Jack= That’s it. People who play this game more and longer than me should be better than I am.

A good majority of the cast is tournament viable, Law happens to be one of those characters; Lets be honest here, Kuma sucks. But hey man, play who you like who gives a shit. It wouldn’t matter if you won with Ryu/Kaz or Elena/Chun, I would still call it how I saw it.

Anyway, as far as the team is concerned its a gimmick team, don’t get offended, every game has a hand full. The team has good synergy because Law is does all the work that Kuma does not have to do. Law is strong footsie character with actual answers to stuff. Ill just be honest, Id body that team free but I have experience in the match-up.

As far as the tournament is concerned its whatever ;1st in a 21 player stacked Cross Tekken bracket, good shit.

I have no problem with you but Id be more than happy to take your money.
.

[clerks]

Kuma is not that bad, but almost, lol. You have to be very creative with command grabs in order to own your opponent, not simply rely on rekka. He’s really good against Jack once he’s in for example. Law/kuma can work vey well imo, but clearly you’ll have to work harder than Law/hugo, or Law/Gief. And most important thing, you cannot get close to most of the cast once your opponent knows kuma.

Hades: Kuma is like Christie, but worse imo. Lots of stuff that will not work more than a couple of times, and with terrible mobility. Christie’s somewhere around mid, and kuma around mid-low I guess. And really, this “being negative can be good” stuff is nonsense. Just puts you in a position where to get the momentum again you have to throw random and dangerous stuff. Not quite logical.

[Akhos]

I think Raven/Heihachi would be a better team. Raven is capable of getting close with his teleport mix-ups, giving openings for Heihachi to murder your opponent. If I’m not mistaken, both Ryu and Raven are considered top-tiers in this game.

Actually, now I’m considering giving Hwoarang another shot, now that I’m learning to do more than just spam his overhead chain. And I might give Juri a try. And perhaps Guile. And Akuma. And Kazuya. And Jin. And Cody, Lars, Alisa, Sakura, Bryan, Guy, Dudley, and Elena once the DLC hits the PC…

Gah! So many characters to use! Head Explodes

[Joe_Lewis_1]

Kuma is not that bad, but almost, lol. You have to be very creative with command grabs in order to own your opponent, not simply rely on rekka. He’s really good against Jack once he’s in for example. Law/kuma can work vey well imo, but clearly you’ll have to work harder than Law/hugo, or Law/Gief. And most important thing, you cannot get close to most of the cast once your opponent knows kuma.

Hades: Kuma is like Christie, but worse imo. Lots of stuff that will not work more than a couple of times, and with terrible mobility. Christie’s somewhere around mid, and kuma around mid-low I guess. And really, this “being negative can be good” stuff is nonsense. Just puts you in a position where to get the momentum again you have to throw random and dangerous stuff. Not quite logical.

Yeah Law makes Kuma good… It is a team game so…

[clerks]

Law is strong. Good pressure game, good footsies, you land two combos you have 3 bars(seriously, that shit is insane and should be nerfed when the game is patched).
A lot of chars are strong in fact, thing is nobody’s playing them. Poison’s strong too, ppl saying she’s not haven’t been pressured in the corner(I think only Jin can escape without having to guess when she’s going to 2mk). There’s a lot to be discovered in the game yet, especially on forgotten chars.

[Joe_Lewis_1]

Law is strong. Good pressure game, good footsies, you land two combos you have 3 bars(seriously, that shit is insane and should be nerfed when the game is patched).
A lot of chars are strong in fact, thing is nobody’s playing them. Poison’s strong too, ppl saying she’s not haven’t been pressured in the corner(I think only Jin can escape without having to guess when she’s going to 2mk). There’s a lot to be discovered in the game yet, especially on forgotten chars.

Law is solid. I play him. But man Law/Kuma is a gimmick; Just abuses Law. ITs teams like that, that make me wish snap back was in this game.

[JiBbo]

Yo Seth if you’re down for that 200$ money match I’ll help spot you. KaraStorm love

Nothing against Joe at all on my end. It’s all for the hype!

[chaoslimits]

Cheap

You’re still cheap mang… :sad: (that bear is fuckin cheap!! :mad:)
Need to play you more lol.

[Intuitive2011]

Do me and money inc!!!

You’ll be first on my list, your team is team ballers, right? (Lili/Ken.)

But, I need more people…so much more!

[Fergus2k8]

Hey everybody, it’s good to see this board so active! I was wondering, would anybody like to be interviewed by me in regards to this game? I’ve composed a few for my blog months ago, I done one with Jozhear and another with G of the Ken forums.

You’ll be more likely to be picked if you play obscure characters like Yoshimitsu, Dhalsim and Asuka. But, EVERYBODY will be considered. I aim to try and interview four people of this fantastic community.

Thanks for your potential help, guys.

Eh, I play Poison/Asuka so I guess I’ll volunteer