Just so I don’t receive any nasty messages again from angry Vega players again. I don’t think Claw is 3-7. But I think it is definitely a hard match up
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With Guile throwing the booms its all he really needs to do since his will recover quickly, so it makes using EX Elbow a bit more risky if youre not at a good space. Plus he can use his like a shield like Laura and walk foward, but his will go fully across the screen. Laura can’t jump because of the Flash Kick and his other AA, and his normals have better range than hers. If his V-Skill is charged he can get in on Laura rather easily, so it puts Laura in a bad space. I agree with the a 3.5-6.5 (but I guess just 3-7 for the sake of the forum) because it is really hard to get in on Guile, especially if Guile has meter and the Laura player has to constantly worry about an EX Flash Kick that will force her to restart the process all over again.
I still think Cammy is 3-7 against Laura. The only thing helping is Cammys low health, but Laura doesnt have any option that can be a threat against her and cant punish her at all unless it was a DP. You basically have to luck out and hope you did the right thing.
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Zangeif** is in the realm of a 3.5-6.5 (I want to say so badly 3-7 but thats just the pettiness in me lol). Everything she does put her in the range to be grabbed since her moves have short range and move her foward. No FB unless at full screen away since he can dash and press s.hk and will CC her since her start up is too slow. No jumping because he can swat her out with Lariat and st.lp, no elbow use at all since she’ll just be SPD’d, and his cr.lp just shuts down alot of her getting in options and pushes her so far out. If he gets full bar Laura has to take an extreme amount of caution. I don’t really see what option Laura has to do here.
Ive played more against Alex, and its really just a toss up between the two. Alex has longer range, but Laura can wail on Alex when she gets in. So to be honest its a 5-5, each has things the other doesnt want to deal with.
I don’t know what to say about Karin honestly. I mean yeah she has a metered DP, but I think the real threat comes from her long and safe normals, mainly just the use of cr.mp, cr.mk, and st.mk. It can be complete hell for Laura. and she can hesitate to throw a FB because of Karin’s overhead, but that’s pretty easy to bait and punish hard, especially if Laura uses the lp version. Karin’s V-Trigger doesnt really mean anything if you just V-Reversal out of it so it’s not really that much of a threat. I definitely dont fear the match up anymore as more-so it can be very aggravating.
At the end of it all as stated before, Laura can truly shine if she faces against someone with no invincible reversal.
3-7 vs Cammy and 3.5-6.5 vs Zangief look to me way off. The only way I can explain that is that we’re using two totally different scales, in which case according to your scale Chun and Guile should be at least 2-8. I think in this game 3-7 are very rare and mostly fueled by the personal feelings of mains that struggle in a particular MU - and everyone tends to downplay his own main anyway.
Most of what you’re telling about Cammy and Zangief is just theory fighting. Of course Cammy can DP everything Laura does and Laura can’t do the same, of course Gief can Lariat every jump in or grab you out of blocked elbows (but then again, every single character can), but if those things happen it just means you’re not respecting enough or your jumps are too predictable. I don’t even see why you should mention Gief’s CA since it’s literally the same thing against every character.
Gief is one of the few characters against which you can actually zone with her fireball. Even his armored moves can do nothing against 3-hitting charged fireballs, and since he has to commit to jumps more than you do and he has a huge hitbox you can catch him in the air easily with H bolt (unless he has meter for the EX air SPD). The real issue with Gief is rather that you’re not allowed to whiff any normal because it means entering his L/EX SPD range; you should either be very careful while playing footsies or shield yourself with fireballs at the right range.
There’s already enough tournament evidence of Laura players winning sets against Cammy so the MU is definitely far from impossible. To me it doesn’t look nearly as hard as Ryu, a good Guile or Chun and it’s actually closer to Karin (which is somewhere around 5/5.5 to me), more streamlined and with smaller damage output but with definitely better defensive options.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs62uCOqBM0
I main cammy and I mostly agree with necro’s list. Sim feels a bit weird at times but that’s because my friend is a really intelligent player. I find sim players to be easy if they just sit back and let you whiff punish all day but a really smart one that knows how to get in and out can be quite a pain for her. However when you do get in I think he gets destroyed by cammy. I do think laura fairs a bit better than Necro is giving her credit for. Primarily due to how fast she stuns if she gets started, which is how myself and most of the good cammy’s I’ve seen lose that matchup. I’m certain she has an advantage for sure but her stun output is high and cammy is easy to stun while also not having the health to sustain that kind of damage. In addition she does have high burst damage with v-trigger, but its not the v-trigger that chun, balrog, or necal have that could help her come back from a huge health deficit consistently. I do think its 6 - 4 or 5.5 - 4.5 in cammy’s favor but laura definitely can edge it out. Other than that its spot on I really only have trouble with ryu (if they turtle), birdie (if I can’t corner him), and gief (from everywhere).
I played a few hit and run style of Laura’s, strangely I think that’s the way laura should play the matchup.
ohh thanks for this!
I may have said this already in the other thread, but I am curious about the reasoning behind Alex and Mika being 6-4 MUs for Sim, as well as Karin being a 5-5 MU. I have only heard Sim players talk about these as bad matchups.
edit: according to OceanMachine Laura beats Sim as well
Not really according to me but to most Laura players. I was having some issues at the very beginning, but as soon as I figured out that Laura has the tools to shut down most of Sim’s ground game it became much easier. He won’t throw any far normal out as long as a fireball is out or that she has meter for EX bolt (probably the main threat for Sim). He still has the same issue as Cammy of being a frail character against someone that can build stun very fast, and on top of that his teleport isn’t throw invincible on first frames, making him vulnerable to meaty throws. The MU plays imho a bit like Nash in that he will run most of the time but at the end she will make him her grappling bud.
I don’t think Birdie beats Cammy 6-4 at all. I think it’s even.
Don’t say this loud!
Actually why is Ryu-Cammy 6-4? Wasn’t it 5-5 too?
Lol, I’d say it loud even if Birdie won 7-3. I want Birdie buffs in Season 2!
What’s the Alex vs. Vega match-up down as, 5-5? Fuck no, that’s a 6-4 to Claw at least
Birdie vs Cammy theoretically would be even as Cammy just has a ton of tools that stop his V Skill. His V Skill is his main way to buff the use of his otherwise more gimmicky special moves and she can always remove that quickly with many of her body hurling tools on reaction.
I still don’t think people are using most v triggers optimally. There are a few that are optimal or close to it, like Chun and cammy, but others like birdie, Ryu, Laura, maybe rashid, guile,ken, that have more to them than meets the eye.
As an example, chuns still need to start absorbing fireballs with bhp in v trigger, and they still need to start applying fhk in v trigger better as its a combo without needing CH.
There are lots of these kinds of things going on with other v triggers as well, but lots of people are only using them for their pop. Ryu as an example, his v trigger gives him the bets fireball in the game, but at the price of v meter, well when I use Ryu, instead of just firing off fireballs as fats as possible to maximize how many I get out, instead I try to just fire them like super imbalanced pokes that my opponent either respects, or gets hit by. I’ve found ryus v trigger to be pretty decent TBH. Not terribly good, but not bad either.
@OceanMachine Hey can you explain the Ibuki match up with Laura? Wouldnt it lean into Ibuki’s favor with the kunais and DP?
Maybe, but both kunais and DPs come in limited stock and she would rather keep the bar for EX kunais than spend it for DPs. Laura has overall better normals but the best of Ibuki’s normals is airborne and crushes lows, which means you can’t grab or hit her low for free; Ibuki’s command dashes can cross-up but Laura’s dashes are much safer; and Ibuki’s floaty jump is both deceiving and easier to AA than other jumps. And then there’s always those 900 HP/900 stun that weigh heavy against Laura.
I think they’re similar rushdown/mixup characters and the weaknesses of one are counterbalanced by those of the other. Who will win is determined by who is more patient and who falls less for the opponent’s gimmicks.
We allready know how this ends, we went trough this in the MU thread like 3 times.
I personaly think the MU is even,just because they can both fight each other effectively.
Cammy has the tools to tell Birdie not to fuck around and up close she is at the advantage,since Birdies defence outside of V-Trigger is absolut bad.
It’s a bit tricky to fight Birdie in the neutral,but he has the same problem as Chun has vs Cammy,once Cammy gets 1 Bar it becomes problematic to play the neutral,since you always have to fear the treat of the EX Divekick.
It’s not like Cammy got the tools to beat Birdie in the neutral too, but noone cares about them either.
Wrong thread
Most Vega players believe Alex wins this. I’m with them.