I know I missed the talk about 3f vs 4f stuff that frost mentioned, but would a solution for this problem, if they were to refuse to give 4f characters 3f jabs, to make adjustments to frame data and pushback so they can be on par if not in some situations better than what some 3 framers can do?
No matter the game, Chris is gonna Chris G.
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I also finished it. I have nothing to say about the movie on an emotional or factual level.
Y’all just gotta go see it.
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Frosty, once again saying what Dime said… on the late train.
But atleast youve come around and see the point i was making.
Remember your rebuttal?
“Just walk forward and cr.lk,cr.lp confirm”
But… thats just not very effective. Not “inneffective” but not super effective either. And for charge characters its fucking terrible since they have to let go of charge to walk up and cr.lk,cr.lp.
My newest shit is literally walk up cr.lk x5>cr.mk
FUCK IT
Why wouldnt they just give 4 frame characters 3 frame jabs?
The answer is because the balance between 4 and 3 frame moves is BY DESIGN. The balance between having a trap against 3 frame starting from a jab… is also by design. Hell, even how much if any plus frames you have after doing your light>medium 3 frame trap… is by design. Uriens only light to medium 3 frame trap is st.lk,cr.mp and the cr.mp is +0 on block so he cant even get plus frames after going for his frame trap!
BUT… something most iriens havent figured out or know yet, is that he can wiff punish jabs for free with st.hk this in turn means people less willing to press jabs in his pressure and more willing to just do nothing or walk backwards.
This is all by design, believe it or not.
CH pushback is an example of something not by design.
Noob question - can you react to a normal that your oponent does on your wakeup?
For example, with Akuma i can do lp, cr.lp, lk, cr.lk or cr.mp. Depending on the normal, you can block, do a 3f or walk back.
Are you able to react and choose the option or do you make a decision even before blocking?
first blazblue had crossplay with xbox360
ed- oh and the power ranger game is supposed to get it too in the future but between all platforms outside of ps4
That is a genuine option, but my point was centred around characters who don’t have that luxury.
Cody and Alex as examples, don’t have the necessary walkspeed post-block pushback to catch up and be able to cr.lk > cr.lp confirm.
A lot of characters come equipped to deal with walkback. Some have zero options.
True, but that depends on the setup and character your facing as well.
As an example, Alex versus any character after a blocked jumpin hk… that’s doable. Alex against say, Vega from a blocked Alex cr.lp from near max range… not doable.
Alex versus m.bison from near max range Alex cr.lp, doable because of bisons terrible walkspeed.
Then there’s also the characters that can do cr.lk,cr.lp… but can’t confirm from a walkup outside special circumstances such as Urien who can only really confirm this into anything special when he has aegis, or when his opponent is crouching (which kills the entire point)
It’s something a lot if not most characters have an issue with. Even akuma as an example can have issues with this depending on how far out he’s trying to wal in from, against what character.
Vega is by far the most annoying at this though. I’ve played Vegas I legit can’t pressure because they backwalk out of every thing save for blocked jumpins.
Also @Frost
What do you think of the simple “medium>cr.lk” string?
It should trap most 3 framers for most characters, and it will do up to 40 damage or so (10 white chip plus 30 for cr.lk)
Might be a training string to use against players to set them up for something bigger down the line.
I use cr.mp > cr.lk a lot as Cody. Lots of Akumas do cr.mp > cr.lk > cr.hp.
It’s really good.
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Yeah I play againsta random ass dashup necalli a lot and he’s always using that string to train for stuff.
Probably uses it about 1 out of every 4 or 5 blockstrings.
Backwalk speed is an underestimated defensive tool. Probably the best in the game. And vega’s defence is top tier outside the corner.
In regards to dealing with vega and sakura for alex, lariat ~ cmd grab does becomes useless as a mix up. So you vt 2 ddt could come in handy in that matchup (cr mk ~ ddt). For cody the pipe does.
Also @Frost is having a +3 light button that useful for maintaining pressure considering you cant confirm it without commiting to a frametrap? Bison and Alex have a +3 normal (st hk for bison and lariat for alex), for both that’d be their meaty and pressure button.
Yeah I mentioned that above. St.lk isn’t a good frame trapping tool, I rarely use it and the same goes for UGM Cody players. It pushes out too far and your mids end up too far away to follow-up with counter-hit combos. It’s a good poke and buffer tool, but up close it’s bad.
The only strings I’ll regularly use are st.lk x3 in the corner, and very rarely st.lk > cr.mp. The post block situation for st.lk > cr.mp is terrible unless you commit to an EX.Zonk out of it.
Bison’s jabs are what 6f mid characters should have access to. He can tick out of it, and it allows him to get counter-hit combos out of it, universally vs. 3fs. Bison has a fucking 3f too, which makes it even more infuriating. I thought not having access to +3 was to avoid true blockstrings.
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By counter hit combos i assume your saying Bison has access to high damage combos into mid against 3 framers, with only difference being with cody being damage, since cody can also tick throw and frametrap into a light.
But in terms of pressure (right outside of point blank range) he’d still have to resort to st hk for pressure due to st mp being only +2.
Bison was never originally designed with a 3 frame and he never had it in s1, but they added that in after the outcry from community that he was too weak. df hp went from -2, to +1 (without 3 frame), to now beating any buttons including 3 frames. Resulting in boring and obnoxious pressure.
yeah, basically.
Bison’s option pool can be universal across cast, and trap/tick vs. 3f characters. St.lp > cr.mp*/st.mp > st.lp, the third st.lp pushes too far out for the opponent to now contest, so Bison can do st.lp > cr.mp/st.mp > st.lp > st.hp xx orb to end his pressure, and then start mixing in df.hp to extend the party.
There are real, varied options present in Bison’s gameplan thanks to his data allowing it.
Cody’s option pool dilutes his ability to trap buttons, and he has to settle for lower damage gains across the board and worse throw/microwalk pressure due to it.
I get cr.lp > delay cr.lp to deal with 3fs out of my jab buttons, and in using my +3 options with st.lk/st.mk, I can’t tick throw and microwalk pressure gets worse because the pushback is increased, so the opponent won’t want to use escaping options that enable the frame traps in the first place.
And the icing on the cake is that, as I said before, one of the only real solutions to this is to fuck everything going on and just EX.Zonk. This is why I hate EX.Zonk. It eclipses everything/sticks a crappy band-aid over his problems.
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Naw that’s not the primary reason I don’t think.
It’s mainly o do with if a character has a slow 6 frame medium. Like for Urien his st.lk made perfect sense in s2. But then they inexplicably made his st.mp a 7 frame move and it totally fucked his pressure.
It’s like that for a lot of characters. There are the odd ones here and there but usually if a character has no +3 lights it’s becasue they have a 5 frame medium. And when most characters have plus 3 mediums or lights it’s usually because their fastest medium is 6 frames.
Also, another “soft rule” is that most +3 light attacks won’t leave you in throw range.
And most 3 frame light attacks aren’t +3
Etc etc
Sf5 has lots of soft rules like that going on to homogenise the cast and place characters in certain tiers of attributes.
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That makes zero sense considering majority that have access to good +3 values, don’t lack for a 3f normal OR a 5f mid. I used to think the data played out like that too, but it obviously doesn’t.
Majority? Like who?