Akuma getting hard knockdowns of those VT Dps too…
Must be nice
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Yup her defensive game buffs up once she gets VT2 and lets her still whore meter for later. They’ve slowly been increasing her QoL but ultimately she’s going to be a lesser Kage or Akuma so probably not too much rep. She does have some slight traits over them, but overall they are better picks.
CVS2 was the last game there was an actual reason to play Sakura in competitively.
Always wonder why Akuma manages it to escape the Nerfhammer.
Then I remember it’s Akuma.
On topic with the removal of meterles DPs.
You had to see this comming, basically only the Characters up to Beta 2 had meterles Reversals, everyone after them had none.
It was a balance decision to even the playfield more.
Also they’re pretty terrible in taking ideas from the games they try to copy them from.
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Taking a metered dp usually resets to the neutral, if your playing ken you get pressure, Ryu vt1 ex dp does 200 damage, with Akuma you can get a silly combo off a cancel, vt1 also gives you 180 dmg and hard knockdown. With kage you can get nearly 300 DMG with vt2 stomp and get hard knockdown. Risk and reward entirely depends on the resources. And this is from a move that beats almost everything the attacker does.
I think meter risk and reward you get with a dp is in a good place. With normal dps it can be hard to punish (with lag) with cc especially from mid range so all you get is a hit confirm with possibly no oki. Metered dp’s give the attacker a jump in combo if you bait successfully, now that people have to calculate and commit the game just flows better in general now.
Akuma is different. You get a 3 frame reversal trigger cancel that some characters on block can only punish with a light combo. If we want to talk balance that shit should be -10 at a minimum in keeping with the rest of the “if I do some stupid shit I’m getting hurt” nature of the game.
Ibuki doesn’t need a DP when she’s got rando 3 frame wake up into trigger and her lp dp. Rashid’s starts up slower so you don’t really see it used the same.
Gief bodies those characters because he’s got v-skill, I wouldn’t say it’s the lack of reversal that’s the sole reason.
If you gave Ryu a meterless dp now, he’s still not top tier. Not because meterless reversal wouldn’t be powerful, just it’s one dimensional, low damage and will lose him 3-400 in damage.
I think the mistake in the game from the start has been core changes regardless of the character. What happens is two fold. You make the game generic because it’s bound by the same rules. You also have no idea how it will effect one character compared to another.
Taking Akumas ,Cammys and Necallis meterless options away, clearly did zero. Taking Ryus away was just another thing he didn’t have inside a list of shit he already didn’t have.
I’m not saying bring them back, I’m saying mass changes are what lead to stale “samey” interactions. Which is the common complaint.
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Those rules dont really impede her ability to use it because her walkspeed dictates shes always in prime range to have tiger knee ex dive ready in most MUs wherever she needs it
Sigh…l this why we can’t havw nice things. Correlating Ed’s KK AA with needing meterless reversal to come back is some junk ass logic. Ed’s KK aa is designed be harder to use for various reasons:
- Because it has no startup motion the designers decided to “balance” it by giving the move itself more startup.
- If it were faster then it would easily combo from weak attacks even from max range which would make it a very strong jab confirm into PP and v skill.
- Because sf5 is balanced around slow ass anti airs. Urien cr.hp, bison cr.hp, Vega st.hk, guile cr.hp… etc etc this is directly done to make it harder to AA and aims to keep people jumping
And finally Ed’s KK isn’t even a dp. It has no ground invincibility at all to ground moves and can’t even be ex’d For I frames.
Meterless reversals are stupid in sf5 because of how the wakeup system works. You want them back you have to also bring back hkd. And I think more people would choose soft knockdowns over meterless reversals.
I think meterless DPs were bad in a game with the new generation leniency on inputs, with very few true blockstring options to control/play around the DP.
DPs are piss to get out, have no semblance of timing and SFV wasn’t like SFIV where jabs could be chained up to four times in a true blockstring to play around the DP without sacrificing aggression. I don’t think the design of V goes hand in hand with meterless DP at all. And the characters who lost them still perform well, so it hasn’t crippled them. We also have a whole bunch of -2 where that’s fairly easy to come across where you can just let it rip.
I think meterless DP was more of a legacy inclusion rather than contextual to the games design. The CC on whiffed DPs shouldn’t exist tho, that much Im sure of.
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Seems Capcom doesn’t agree.
Haven’t they buffed the CC damage on whiffed DP’s recently ?
The first hit receives 1.25 damage scaling, which buffs your combos scaling output overall or something
microwalks for 1f
Yeah guys hes not even in throw range you idiots
With the triggers in the game everything seems trivial now. Nothing ever gona top V-trigger, unless you include the old SF2 loops.
Yeah, you had mix up loops in SF4, and yeah I hated them with all my life, but at least you didn’t feel like you just got beat by a kid that picked up the game yesterday morning.
You know there’s no use bitching. The game is designed this way on purpose.
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I don’t really care about trigger being strong… every fighting game has something that is strong or can be abused. They wouldn’t be fighting games without that… they would be patty cakes…
But I don’t like the fact that I have to wait half or more of a lifebar to get my full character, nor do I like the fact that entire rounds and games often come down to whether or not your v pop hit or was blocked. I’d like the entire round to matter more, not just what happens when characters are sitting on MAX METER MODE.
I seriously want poke to do more. I’d really like it if all st.mk did 100 damage. Uriens, ryus, birdies, juris, kages, ed’s Etc these are already good pokes or AA’s but giving these moves better damage could make the game start to be more ground based.
Only problem really would be the characters that have them as part of combos… this would buff the hell out of akuma and old zeku. Not bad for OZ, but would be crazy for akuma. But then again if akuma is now having to deal with sidekicks that do 100 damage, when akuma doesn’t have the greatest ranged pokes… maybe not so bad.
It would be interesting at least to see a change in this vein. I wonder how the game would actually play with a ruleset like that.
100 damage stmks alright just reign in the inner Dime just a tad and I can concur slightly with some of that, mainly on the game becoming more grounded.
It’s mainly cause of bad hitboxes on shit why the game isnt grounded. I’d say probably 1 in 3 can play a matchup better by just dashing in and getting into jab range than trying to use their poor buttons.
Forget fixing V itself but the next game, I hope, focuses on walkspeed and player interactions via normals. Whiff punishes, jockeying for position, poking and hit confirm pokes. And a heavy deflating of throw n forget. Hell I wouldn’t be opposed to the complete removal of dashes outside of character specific archetypes like Makoto.
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100 damage st.mk is hyperbole, but I’d still design for it as I’m not a fan of “buffed st.mk damage by 5 for entire cast” style of balancing. To me a buff or nerf should be strong enough (or smart enough) that it’s inclusion leads to IMMEDIATE results with regard to that thing.
100 would be certain overkill… or would it?
I think it would but a version of the game that has it would be fun to play and learn for a month or 2, then after having gotten used to it and seeing what it messed up and what it was good at… a more sensible idea might come about like making them all 80 damage or so…
But… there’s always the chance that after playing with the original hyperbolic buff, that people might actually prefer the game in that state.
Unfortunately, even the best designers can’t know all the ramifications of a change without playtesting them. Some dumb things end up being good and some things that sound good end up being really bad. Like the st.mk buff might be horrid for reasons we really can’t get fathom so it might go all the way back to the original damage.
But it seems like something fun to experiment with at the very least.
The dashes in isolation are not a big deal, its in conjuction with everything else.
I was thinking about Ken and Ryu, both incredible dashes, straight up broke almost, but they both are still pretty mediocre characters. Then I thought what if I gave Sagat a 16 frame dash, would he be better? Sure he’d be better, but enough? I’m not sure.
Basically they made it so that at any given time, some nuke might go off and I think that’s why the game is stressful, you never know when you gota run for the bunker!
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Well yeah, its in conjunction with the CC system. Need to stop dashing buffer jabs at midrange, want to beat a jab press a CC to deter and then start dashing again.
Having sub 18f dashes is just silly in a game with such poor mid coverage though. Sure, have strong dashes. But if the go-to neutral range for basically everyone is within that distance, it’s going to become an easy bypass when the CC mechanic deters the only counter.
I get real bored of only having stmk and sthk for a majority of my ground game. Poor mid coverage strangles your effective options.
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CC at least makes the game have “some” footsies though. Take away CC and therefor buff the shit out of wiff jab and the game now becomes sf4 Elena… the entire cast. Do we really want jab happy neutral? I’m not a fan of that personally.
Buff st.mk damage and watch as people dash into them for ludicrous damage 
No but seriously, just buff ground pokes all around and the game becomes much better. I mentioned buffed st.mk because it is the homogenous poke that most characters have. Like cr.hp being a homogenous AA for most characters and cr.hk being sweep for most if not all characters.
It’s correct that sf5 is probably a write off in this regard… but sf6 is probably only 2-4 years out or so.
CC doesn’t really add a layer of footsies as much as it eclipses other forms of poking. Throwing mids, trying to jab buffer the mid as it whiffs, a jockeying back and forth as you try to play around the normal with your hitbox. CCs just eat that entire interaction and due to the priority system, your best bet is throwing your own CC out there.
So it’s gone from something I could equate to a fast paced game of chess, with many pieces in play. To something more like apes throwing rocks.
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