Yes, i said FF "heroes"
Mad Gear gang had more interessing possible options
Abigail may be #3 shadow
Sodom
Retu as kinda Honda replacer
El Gado full of knives
Belger with the chair, kinda like Modok… they can go crazy with it
Rolento is a trickster motherfucker that can be fun af in SFV
Bratken was a bigger and crazier Hugo
Poison & Hugo as tag team char
Callman with his old school gangster/bouncer vibe has ever looked fun to me
Yes, i said FF "heroes"
Mad Gear gang had more interessing possible options
Abigail may be #3 shadow
Sodom
Retu as kinda Honda replacer
El Gado full of knives
Belger with the chair, kinda like Modok… they can go crazy with it
Rolento is a trickster motherfucker that can be fun af in SFV
Bratken was a bigger and crazier Hugo
Poison & Hugo as tag team char
Callman with his old school gangster/bouncer vibe has ever looked fun to me
Yes, i said FF "heroes"
Mad Gear gang had more interessing possible options
Abigail may be #3 shadow
Sodom
Retu as kinda Honda replacer
El Gado full of knives
Belger with the chair, kinda like Modok… they can go crazy with it
Rolento is a trickster motherfucker that can be fun af in SFV
Bratken was a bigger and crazier Hugo
Poison & Hugo as tag team char
Callman with his old school gangster/bouncer vibe has ever looked fun to me
Maki gets a partial pass on being Japanese because she doesn’t act like your typical waifufag bait. She was part of a biker gang for a while, and her style is way different from Ibuki’s; no trickery just tonfas to the face and high speed.
Having a more particular race and color by eye or hair doesn’t really matter in video game, fighting game like SF in this timeline, Since SFV isn’t about a world-warrior tournament anymore like SF2, KOF or like World Heroes, because SFV is more like Soul Calibur, Samurai Showdown and Fatal Fury series. SFV is more into relationship, acquaintances and conflicts from each other or simply stopping a different kinds of mad man that lead an organization unbeknownst to many.
I believe in diversity in race, color and etc but it should not be the stronghold and priority of choosing the characters or making it an obvious emphasis, because this kind of limitation only limit possibilities and progression of characters to have interaction to other character in there relevant timeline of existence before they fade away to obscurity or be not appropriate to interact with other characters.
**Maki **
Maki being a ninja isn’t a an issue with Ibuki they play very differently. Similarity is just a class of being a ninja but both plays differently, moves differently and had different appeal.
Haggar
Haggar isn’t like Decapre, Juli and Juni to Cammy and Haggar isn’t like Ken, Sakura and Akuma to Ryu. Why? How?
1.) Keep in Mind:
2.) Because of THIS:
We have seen a lot of forms of Haggar in a Fighting game that has more difference from each other from Slammasters, FF Revenge, UMVC3 and etc, while Gief having more exposure in fighting games had only very very few variant from each other. In-fact Haggar had richer interpretation of versions and ideas than Gief that is likely to stay that way and play that way.
[list]
[] Haggar in SFV has a wide range of inspiration for normals and specials from his previous iteration from other games.
[] We had seen him have his many different variant of grappling moves in the past than Gief, that includes the pile driver. That is often used as a relativity argument to justify him to be another clone which makes it not.
[] Haggar’s Lariat can be different from Gief, It can be not as a special move but rather as a vTrigger that makes him have grey life
[] Another interesting thought/idea is to make Haggar in SFV be the representation of every Slammaster fellows in CWA by incorporating their specials mix to his own own unique specials. That can lead into his personal character growth and to show experienced through the years.
[] Having those Ideas makes him totally more flexible and ambiguous in move-set than Gief and other grapplers. So he has more Design-Space than other existing grapplers in SF universe.
[] Haggar can be Capcom’s Icon of grapplers even beyond CWA characters by importing some from Colossus in COTA and Victor in VSav.
[*] Capcom can let Haggar’s nature of imitating be his strength along with experienced, while Gief stays the same to symbolize mastery and focus compare to Haggar. This make them both have edge to each other in a different way.[/list]
**
Here is some example of possibilities that I did for Haggar before and probably Capcom can do more!**
UMVC3 did separate him from normals like the steel pipe and hard hitting drop kick but Haggar is still labeled as a clone because of the two famed special moves in FG history. The Pile Driver and Lariat is common definition and references used against him for being just another Gief.
Goals : How to re-Invent him to be not anymore another Zangief and play far away from traditional existing grapplers in SFV, While keeping his nostalgic feel intact and not thrown away.
Solutions: is to remove this two moves as regular special moves make them exclusive and irregular move like Ryu’s Shin Shoryuken and Shinkuu Tatsumaki Kyaku. Then take influences from hard hitting brawler and unconventional play style characters like of Colossus of Xmen Cota, Geese, Antonov, Daimon and Krauser from KOF.
A grappler in plot and origins but plays without a special command throw other than a single EX. This is my take to recreate a Capcom grappler to a non-capcom traditional grappler converted with unconventional gameplay style but keeping his nostalgic reference. He never had any debut in an SF fighter unlike the other Final Fight cast. I hope Capcom would consider him someday in a SF fighter.
V-Skill :
Dig/Find/ (MP+MK) - Haggar will do a quick crouch/duck that can dodge an attack then hit/slams/pound the ground for a random power up(can be nothing) to appear for 3 seconds anywhere in the ground of the stage within the perspective of both players, Haggar need to walk through the item to get the buff effect.
Turkey- Adds 5% of Full Stamina
Whiskey- Adds 5% of Full VGauge
Vitamin- Empties/Resets Stun Gauge
Dollar - Adds 5% of Full EXGauge
Knife - Throw able Item by pressing whatever attack button, Can pass through any energy based projectile.
The Knife usage is a references based on his debut in original Final Fight that he could only throw the knife.
V-Reversal : Haggar’s Lariat
V-Trigger: Rage/Heat Up Super Slam/Super Throw - nostalgic reference from his Ring of Destruction version that pushes him to play rush down like in his retro wrestling and beat em up appearances.
Haggar turns Red during activation and Haggar’s HP(Pipe) becomes a completely unblockable punch. That If this punch connects with the opponent, Haggar will initiates a Pile Driver. Up to 3 Pile Drivers. Works even in Jump State. This will also gave him immunity to stun status and dizzy effects because of freezing/pause his stun gauge.
Nostalgic references from Shuma Gorath’s Chaos Dimension and Spiral’s Metamorphosis in MVC series.
V-Trigger: (Alternative Concept) non-install works like Nash’s Teleport’s by making Haggar Lariat as a COMBO BREAKER - Haggar will do a keep away version Spinning Clothesline that is invulnerable to specials and normals attacks. Can be used to cancel any of your special(non throw) or normals attacks. It’s not a multi-hitting/comboable move like gief but does a big damage in the initial hit then knocks away your opponent to the other side of the screen like Ryu’s HK Tatsu.
New Special Moves exclusive from other Haggar counterparts:
1.) Violent Axe - Appeared in UMVC3 and Ring of Destruction. Works closely to UMVC3 counterpart.
Rapid Fire Fist EX version is Haggar’s Special Lariat - Haggar will do a keep away version Spinning Clothesline that is invulnerable to specials and normals attacks. Can be used to tech-hit normal throws with proper timing and also to cancel any of your special(non throw) or normals attacks. It’s not a multi-hitting/comboable move like gief but does a big damage in the initial hit then knocks away your opponent to the other side of the screen like Ryu’s HK Tatsu.
The move will never go with the decrease life version because it doesn’t feel street fighter and there are other variants that doesn’t cost a life drain. I made it as an EX move not just for personal preference to make it stand out to Gief that lacks an EX version. This would even separate him from Eagle’s Manchester Black and Necro’s Tornado Hook from usefulness and purpose.
When talking about Spinning Lariat many would refer to both capcom characters(Haggar and Gief) to each other because of their fame but in fact it has many variants used in many FG with different properties some notable decent reference would be Wolfang Krauser’s Hurricane Fist from SNK’s Fatal Fury Real Bout that would be an interesting alternative though.
3.) Body Slam - from Might Final Fight. A full body leap attack.
4.) Gorilla Press/Wrestling Throw - (base from Slam Master and Final Fight 3) is now a counter move like Geese Howard’s Atemi Nage for upper attacks. Weaker buttons for quicker version but less active frames and stronger buttons for longer active frames.
Can be followed by another variation that is throw farther by repeating the same command. Like Colossus’s Body Hold in XMen COTA and another good references Geese Howard’s Raimei Gouha Nage.
The EX version would be finished by an Izuna Drop and never proceeds to Pile Driver. This is a nostalgic reference and loosely base from his Super Move(Final Hammer?) in Final Fight 3.
5.) Grab Head Butt - is now a counter move for lower and mid attacks. Weaker buttons for quicker version but less active frames and stronger buttons for longer active frames.
The EX version is followed by a Suplex that will switch your position. Critical Art: Rapid Fire Fist from UMVC3.
Normals:
Many would referred him nowadays based from his famed UMVC3 version a parody of his debut in Final Fight. The Pipe as HP and other normals in UMVC3 are already good references but there are a lot more obscure reference that can translate him better like Xmen’s Cota’s Colossus where he could borrow decent normals and some animation stuff.
Since Colossus have strong similarities/likeness to his Ring of Destruction and Final Fight 3 counterpart from physiques, specials and normals if Haggar would be translated to Alpha/Zero style.
Lucia seems interesting but not in SFV current situation and she shouldn’t be linked or be against Shadaloo or Secret Society thats the same with Kyle and Dean it’s like Capcom trying hard an establish connection from them plus it would open new complication and unanswered question. As for Carlos he can be randomly in the game for no strong reasons, but there are more suitable characters than him already.
I see no problem with Death, El Gado, Bracken or Abigail to make it, but as for Rolento that had already an exposure in SF4 and SFxT kinda redundant for a non-plot driven character without a strong relationship with the current SFV roster. Poison and Hugo Tag character seems okay it kinda new. The rest would be just random sensationalize thugs and Belger is kinda fun but not in SFV serious tone. IMHO
Those villains isn’t the priority of SFV progression to be re-introduce they would just demands a lot of what if Mad gear stuff without important matters unanswered, while Haggar that have a strong ties with Gief and Maki that appeared in Sakura Ganbaru can be easily link with Ibuki because of Guy in SF4.
Both Haggar and Maki characters can tell a story conclusion indirectly from their perspective for Guy and Cody without the two being involve in SFV. if Capcom doesn’t want them to appear redundantly or if Capcom wants to give conclusion in their involvement in SFIV with less complication.
I’ll rather see Philippe from Final Fight 2 than the rest of them along with Death…
Philippe is an interesting henchman for Death he can play and act like Fatal Fury’s **White **along with Injustice’s Joker combined. Chaotic personality is another lacking in SF universe. I’m not talking about the Karate Clown concept in SF4 that is drawn by Seth Killian, Because it’s not about being a clown with martial arts but rather a clown that is representing chaos.
**So my Final Fight Villain line up. for a What if SF x Final fight or a Final Fight Expansion **
[list]
[] Death - Leader = Represents Anarchy (change name representation that is more interesting for the goal setting)
[] Philippe - Lead henchman had a Fang and Joker style personality = Represents Chaos
[] Abigail/Bracken - henchman Abobo(Steriods) type character = Represents Havoc
[] El-Gado - Knife expert = Represents Mayhem
[*] Retu - kinda independent, that works for his own favor = Represents Maelstrom
[/list]
The combination of character isn’t just random 80s themed thugs it has diversity and the name representation isn’t random they are distinctive, symbolic and flavorful to there individuality, moves, attack and personality.
I can see it now, all the former Juggalos, who’ve been sitting in their parents basement in the same pair of Jenko jeans, pounding down FayGo sodas since 1995 waiting for the great Malenko will gravitate towards Philippe as their new FG Saviour.
She wasn’t just part of a biker gang. She was their leader. When they localized Maki, they gave her the Goku treatment and took away her edge. The woman is a damned badass.
I guess our difference stand there
I never thought “story” is the strong part of SF saga, i ever believed that SF -used to- excel at character design (single and cast) and at create concepts with a core motif, often with very deep research on it and multiple layers of source
From my perspective it’s the opposite, character-links of a relatively weak story risk to give free slots to chars that design/concept/variety wise don’t offer half of what other characters can
ps: Soul Calibur used to be my second fav FG saga, and imho the decline it suffered design-wise is the worse i ever seen, and the cast building approach in combo with chasing trends played an huge role at that.
Design wise and with Hilde exception the series easily peaked with SC3 (with some SC1 elements being better) and artistically gone crap after it
I believe they are now prioritizing characters that are now had involvement only to Shadaloo and Secret Society since they are now in a SF3 prequel game(SFV) that’s why there are no other big threats that are conflicted now other than Secret Society and Shadaloo. They are prioritizing concluding everyone in Shadaloo Saga/Chapter and that is their current direction like they did to SFA another prequel game.
They could do the World Warrior thing again in the beginning of Secret Society Saga, like they did in the beginning a of Shadow Falls. Every character should be attached with everyone involved with Shadaloo conclusion and Secret Society’s rise. So limiting an interaction of other previous character from Shadaloo because of his color, race and hair shouldn’t be the issue and priority now.
ps: As much as I like and request Final Fight characters and Mad Gear villains. I know they are not the priority and they have a small chance of possibility not to appear in SF5 entirely, that the issue with Sodom not being in SFV and that’s why i’m establishing a link and conclusion in my previous post without bringing the rest of the FF All Star heroes and villains to make it less complicated.
If Akuma is in Tekken 7 as a guest character, wouldn’t it be likely that one of our season 2 characters will be from Tekken?
I think the next character could very well be Tekken’s Jack, though Final Fight’s Abigail seems to suit the silhouette a little better… Yoshimitsu may be the last character though.
I just hope if there would be a guest character it won’t be from other FG brand other than Street Fighter. Even though Yoshimitsu seems interesting and another of my favorite in SC, I hope Capcom would prioritize the SFex’s Garuda and Skullomania as they were the iconic of the series.
I’d be pissed off if we got a guest character. Already people are unhappy about favourites being omitted from season 2, but to push another potential fav back for a Tekken character would be bad. Also, it’s like how people of late want a Tekken character in MvCI. Why? I’m not usually one to yell out “WASTED CHARACTER SLOOOOOOOOOT!” but, in this case, why bring in a character from another, unrelated franchise into these titles when there’s still tons of other characters from the native franchises waiting to get in.
I’m not interested in those s2 characters anymore,it’s useless trying to guess who they are,especially after what happened with Ed. They’re welcome in the SF family anyway,but the atrocious PR from Capcom just destroyed my interest on them.
