Let’s bump this thread up with some relevant shit! Now, we’ve got a tourney coming up in a week, I’ll be using Chun again at this tourney, but I need suggestions for who to learn as a secondary character. I have an idea of who to try, but I would like outside opinions plz!
How 'bout that Rog? Most people seem to pick him up pretty fast, and he’s a nightmare to fight against (well, at least when Cole’s using him, haha).
Um my psycho 8-ball says:
Signs point to Bison.
I’ve recently been playing Akuma a bit, but I hate getting murk’ed by people that I know i’m better then, but just cuz I use my secondary, I get owned. It just means that I have a lot to learn and level up with my Akuma.
As for Mandel, I think that my signs are pointing to Sagat…I feel as if matchups that Chun has trouble with, is very well complimented with Sagat. Having that dragon punch works wonders on people who want to try and pressure you a lot…At the same time, he moves like a rock, and plays a bit boring (in my opinion).
However, I think that you are steering more towards Bison. Which is another option that I would approve of as well.
i think you should use geif
Okay, I want to make a post, that is NOT to hate on anyone…it really isn’t, it is merely to become an EXAMPLE of how NOT to play this game. Now, I KNOW that the person who wrote this, is going to bitch at me like CRAZY, and say that I’m talking shit, but really, I’m NOT talking shit, or trying to strip up troubles, I just need to clarify, that THIS is not how to play Street Fighter 4. I read this in a thread:
If you are trying to get good at this game, please do exactly OPPOSITE of this. Learn your STRATEGY first. Execution can be taught at ANY time, and takes practice…however without strategy you will lose to the worst of players.
The point is, that I saw this person write this, and I HAD to make sure that other people from our scene do not think like this.
Working on your strengths as a character, and tightening up your weaknesses as a character, decreasing your opponents options to get in on you, reading your opponents habits and tendencies, patience and smart game play…THESE come FIRST. This is the essence of a good strategic game plan…not execution. Strategy does not “change” all the time…matchups change all the time. With a good game plan, all matchups can be winn’able in my opinion.
that guy is a scrub noone is gonna listen to him mickey.
he is partly talking about move execution. people in bc cant do standing 360… if you cant do your movelist, then im gonna have to agree… you need to work on that first.
but on the other hand hes talking about combo execution also. understanding strat and understanding your character in and out are WAY more important than being able to do the fattest combo.
Mickey is the combo master. he is the most consistent with combos in seattle. (maybe mandel, but that chun lightning kick combo looks easy) mickey and his link combos are not easy. for the combo king to say that execution is second to strategy is something special in my book.
i have a question for the anonymous scrub. I dont do combos. i just work on my strats. do i suck?
I dont know, I’d have to disagree. I remember when I used to try a lot of risky 1 frame link shit that wasnt very practical, or I would go for combos that were beyond my capacity. I found out there were variants to those combos that did ALMOST the same thing but were much easier to pull off.
In my opinion it doesnt matter what combos you know or conviluted kara/roll cancel/whosemawhatsit you can do, if you cant do it, then it doesnt really matter.
A lot of fighting games is risk vs reward. If your shitty execution makes something high risk, and you’re giving up guaranteed advantages, then I’d say that’s a bad idea.
Anywho, thats just my 2 cents, do what works for you, and I dont know shit about sf4.
Mike: I’m confused. Isn’t what you are saying pretty much the opposite of your Mentors general view on how to learn any given fighting game? Does focusing on combos and execution last just have something to do with having to learn the game in the arcade? Or is there something unique about SFIV that is causing this line of thinking?
I thought the general gameplan was that you wanted to learn how to punish shit first. That way you can do the most damage with the opportunites you are given, while you are learning matchups and strats. Am I trippin’ here or what?
Sup man, you are right, my previous mentor aka “Lifetimeboy” did indeed focus heavily on execution. It was actually the ONLY thing that he wanted me to work on. And looking back on this, I disagree with John completely, execution is not the thing that a person should learn first. But what did I do? I focused on execution a LOT. I didn’t have anyone to play with, so why not learn how to do combos and perfect them to 100%? I will say that learning how to execute for so long in those days DID give me the tools to have good execution today, however where was I without strategy and a solid gameplan with my characters?
I’ll tell you where this led me…I would fight against an actual person, and ALL I would try to do, is land my combos…why? Because this is the one factor of a fighting game that I learned first…It was the only thing that I tried to concern myself with. The point is, that I focused on “Execution first” and not a sturdy game plan. Now granted, I was a pre’mature fighting gamer at the time…however had I focused on a GAME PLAN to begin with, I would have done MUCH better in the beginning stages of playing these types of games.
I felt as if all that I was being taught was a strong foundation concerning combos and complicated links. But it led me to believe that tricks and mixups came FIRST in my strategy…the foundation that was laid for me, began to BECOME my strategy. Thus, I was stuck at that level until I realized…execution, mixups, tricks, these are to COMPLIMENT your game strategy not become your strategy. If I can stop another player from doing these faults, then I think that it would be more beneficial for them as a player.
The first time I played Mandel in this game, I realized he had AMAZING footsies, control of momentum in the match, always anti air’ed…solid game play. I was using Ken at the time, and I focused on learning SADC’s, for example my main combo of choice i wanted to learn was: s.mp, s.hp, hp srk (2 hits), SADC, Ultra. Now once again, I began this game by what John had taught me: learning execution, mixups, etc. When I played Mandel for the first time, the dude scraped me…where was my strategy? Where were my combos when I couldn’t get them off? It’s not like I didn’t have a good game plan to begin with, however had I focused on footsies, patience, playing smart, etc…Had I focused on this first, I would have been a better player, and would have learned to EXCEL FASTER in this game.
Only until recently did I actually start incorporating this into my game (strengthining my strategy compared to my execution) and I have learned that THIS is how I’ve been excelling so fast in this game.
Sorry for such a lengthy read, I’m just making sure I hit all points.
Actually Mike, I believe he was refering to Mandel. I asked Mandel how to get good at fighting games about a year ago, and his answer was to perfect doing combos first. He said combo’s always stay the same, so once you learn those, then you always have them. Footsies, mind games and strategy are situational and sometimes a gamble, but combo’s never change, and if you can’t perform them when you get a chance, then good mind games and strats are meaningless.
Ultimately, they are interchangable. Someone can learn strats then combo’s or vice versa. But I think combo’s are something that takes careful attention and practice to master, where as strategies, pressure techniques and game plans are things that you discover while playing against opponents
Someone needs to bump the constructive criticism thread. And it looks like it going to be me… :nunchuck::hp:
Hmm, I dunno if he was referring to Mandel or not, either way, my answer doesn’t change still. How hard is it to punish with hp, srk? I understand the idea of learning a combo always sticks, but that is exactly my point…combos and mixups are things that you keep with you after learning them once…a strategy is built over time, and is MUCH more important.
To learn how to play ANY fighting game, you are gonna need to know how to deal out damage when you have an opportunity…however when I speak of execution, I’m talking about things like pressure strings, mixups, and combos. Pressure strings take execution to pull off so that you don’t get interrupted (srk, or throw), and combos you need to have good execution to pull off all the time. Mixups need to be carefully executed so that they lead into combos. All this does take a considerable amount of execution…
However in the long run, execution can take you only so far. You are going to need to build a strong game plan to get all these things off. Mixups become an option, after you have read your opponent and find which mixup best to use in certain situations. This is learned through having a solid game plan and strategy. At the same time, mixup leads into HOW you get your combos.
The idea is, a person with great execution will most likely lose to a person who has spent the same time working on strategy. I know that this happened when I first played Mandel in this game. I had great combos and execution, however the better player was him. Why you ask? Because he had better footsies then me, more patient, read me better.
Mandel could also earn a PhD in kicking ass in fighting games, and lands his combo’s like butter. I just feel that there is no use learning to create opportunities if you can’t utilize them. It is also no use having skills and no chance to apply them. But if we are talking about which is more important to learn first, I agree with the combo first school.
I definitely see your point though Mike. As I’ve said before, I felt like 50% of learning Marvel for me has been learning not to get killed in a rushdown (and I’m still not very good at it), so I get how important strategy and reading your opponent is. Seeing as how I use Claw inSF4, a pretty poke heavy/non-combo character, learning situations is pretty important for me.
Wow! Me missing this stuff makes me fuckin sick. I don’t care though I will try to make it even though it will later like around midnight-ish
Lol.
Watching these videos make me wanna play.
11/1/2008 CHQ Tournament Results:
1st: ScrubyDan (Ryu, Zangief)
2nd: Leo (M.Bison/Dictator)
3rd: Phil (Rufus)
4th: Allen (Zangief)
5th: Chris F. (Dhalsim), Complexz (Balrog/Boxer)
Great turnout I hope to see more people next time we may be switching the location to either Lester’s or E-Spot (Is that how it’s spelled?) depending on how things go in the near future. Mark your calenders for the end of the month cause that’s when we will be holding another one I am thinking let’s shoot for the 22nd of November that’s 2 weeks from now!
This is what I posted in the BC forums you guys should try and make it out for the next one in 2 weeks!
How many people entered? Who from Seattle went there? How’d they place?
16 people showed up for the tourney no Seattle peeps showed! I wanna see u guys there next one!!!
I think Frank was referring to you and Jamie (along with any other Mount Vernon players) that might’ve went. I’m assuming from your answer that you did?
EDIT-Also, until I find my camera, I will be unable to record matches. It really fucking sucks, and I really hope I find it soon.
Well me and Jamie were there but we both went 0-2 with his C.Viper and my 2 hour crash course learned Ryu, lol.
lol you need some practice. dont bring that weak shit to narrows son. youll get wrecked.