Yeah, that’s the thing that worries me too. I was also hoping that they would add damgage back to st.mp, but that’s just wishful thinking lol… 
From: http://usf4.nesica.net/sozai/2014Ver101_battle_balance.pdf
“2~7段目が空中ヒットした際の浮きを低くし、画面端で空中の相手にフルヒットしやすく”
(The float effect from hits 2-7 landing in the air has been made lower, so getting full hits on an airborne opponent on the screen edge has been made easier to do.)
Furthermore!
“2~9段目の空中ヒット時のダメージを「30」=>「20」に”
(The damage when hits 2-9 occur in the air has been changed from 30 to 20.)
Well that makes me hopeful. Thanks Shino.
Knowing capcom and the way they worded that change, Im almost sure that there will still be many characters that cant be juggled by it, so it’s just a nerf for a nerf. Where it worked before it will do less damage now, and where it didnt work you have a little bit more chance it works now with less damage of course. Let’s hope the damage reduce is really only on juggle, 70 dmg is a lot.
Even on characters that juggle to the finisher, some of those hits whiff in the process. To me it looks more like the changes made to Sagat’s Tiger Cannon where he trades total potential damage for reliable actual damage.
Getting to the finisher on the entire cast and avoiding unintended side effects certainly remains to be seen, though.
Was reading the Ultra rebalance request thread…
MYTH: lk SBK is a useless move that can’t be hit fully and will leave you open for punishment.
Testing:
It hits fully raw, but that’s obviously not relevant. Instead of seeing it not work in a combo and giving up, you gotta make it work. The following normals are special cancellable: all close normals, c lp, c mk, c hp, and then far lp and far mp. The far normals can be summarily excluded from consideration. The rest were checked for each character to see if it produced 6 hits, 1 for the normal and 5 for lk SBK.
Ryu: cl mp
Ken: cl mp
Chun: All crouches, cl mp
Honda: All crouches, cl hp, cl mp
Blanka: c hp, cl mp
Dhalsim: All crouches, cl hp, cl mk, cl mp
Guile: c hp, cl mp
Zangief: All crouches, all close
Abel: c hp, cl mp
C. Viper: cl mp
El Fuerte: c hp, cl mp
Rufus: c lp, c hp, cl mp
M. Bison/Dict: c lp, c hp, cl mp
Vega/Claw: All crouches, cl mp
Sagat: All crouches, cl mp
Balrog/Boxer: c lp, c hp, cl mp
Cammy: c mk, c hp, cl mk, cl mp
Deejay: All crouches, cl hp, cl mp
T. Hawk: All crouches, all close
Fei Long: All crouches, cl mp
Seth: All crouches, cl mp
Gouken: c lp, c hp, cl mp
Akuma: c hp, cl mp
Ibuki: c lp, c hp, cl mp
Makoto: c lp, c hp, cl mp
Dudley: All crouches, cl hp, cl mp
Gen: c hp, cl mp
Dan: cl mp
Sakura: cl mp
Adon: c hp, cl mp
Rose: NONE (**Although j HK, cl mp xx lk SBK will produce 7 hits)
Guy: All crouches, cl hk, cl hp, cl mp
Cody: All crouches, cl mp
Yun: cl mp
Yang: cl mp
Juri: All crouches, cl mk, cl hp, cl mp
Hakan: c hp, cl mp
E. Ryu: cl mp
Oni: c hp, cl mp
Summary:
c HP xx lk SBK hits fully on everyone but:
Ryu, Ken, C. Viper, Dan, Sakura, Rose, Yun, Yang
cl st MP xx lk SBK hits fully for 10 less damage on everyone but:
Rose*
cl st HP xx lk SBK hits fully for 50 more damage on:
Honda, Dhalsim, Zangief, Deejay, T. Hawk, Dudley, Guy, Juri
MYTH STATUS: BUSTED
Good job, but honestly after reading your post i cant help feeling he was right it’s clunky, It’s not like mk.sbk. And seriously cl.mp>lk.sbk is so awkward
It’s the same as cl st HP xx hk SBK, really. Just gotta get a good and fast release -> stand normal -> up+kick rhythm, and punches are more lenient than kicks here.
Of course, on most of the cast you can just use crouch HP.
One combo I really like into Cl. MP is
J. LK > LK Legs > Cl. MP XX LK/MK SBK. Works off of safe-jump, which is still hopefully there with DWU.
I do hope there are some good confirms into LK SBK from jab, even if it’s a little character specific… I am pretty sure combos such as Cl. HK xx HK Legs > Jab xx LK SBK whiff the last hit, on a lot of characters… sucks, but we’ll find something good. =] crosses fingers
problem is lk sbk is nerfed in dmg and stun
is pointless
Wow Rose looks so much better, she’s going to keep her crown in the “queen of poke” competition with chun
Anyway Im a bit frustrated that chun is one the characters whose bugs never get fixed. Ryu’s ex tastu not hitting all hits was fixed in in super or AE, rufus ex messiah wiffing on low profile is fixed, rose cl.mk, gouken tatsu, sakura , ken ultra 2 in ae and ultra 1 now; sagat’s tiger knee or ultra 1 in the corner. And we still have our normal and ex sbk doing random hits and our ultra 1 whiffing… sigh.
Ps: ex kiko>> ex legs in the corner was whiffing on poison the last time I played ultra, hope it’s fixed
Yeah, been running some damage numbers and being restricted to c HP/cl MP on most of the cast really hurts it as a combo alternative together with the change to 100 damage. Not looking utterly futile, though, especially with lk sbk U1 being a large possibility.
Not sure if I understand fully what I’m reading… So… Sbk changes are totally useless? :dead:
lk sbk - Now has juggle options in corner, but these will likely have to involve cl hp xx lk sbk, lk sbk ex sbk, or lk sbk U1 to be worthwhile. Maybe stomps will work on Dhalsim or something.
mk sbk - same as before
hk sbk - improves as a meterless damage option since you’re not left in their face at +0 anymore, but the 4 extra frames of landing recovery eliminates any possibilty of juggling after for stupidly damaging character specific combos.
The thing about juggles after a move that pops somebody back instead of up is that you run into the varying hurtboxes and floatiness of each character. On the ultra mod, hk sbk ex legs would connect on some characters, lk sbk ex legs on more than that with 1 less frame recovery, and then mk sbk ex legs on more still leaving only a handful left out with another 1 less frame of recovery. ex kikouken ex legs felt similarly tight so I really wouldn’t be surprised if it was character specific in the actual game. Of course, a lot also depends on the exact physics of the knockback, and I’ve only been able to work with an approximation.
That said, the farther out ex kikouken hits the better the picture becomes. Hell, you can juggle ex kikouken into U2 half a screen away and into U1 at max screen distance.
Edit: Ex kikouken pressing Ryu against the corner to ex legs is a 1 frame link in the ultra mod. Meanwhile, ex kikouken midscreen to dash up ex legs is pretty easy.
Well, a nice punish option against Akuma that does about 310 damage and should be 318 in Ultra + knockdown – Good for whiffed uppercut… Dash in close -> LK Legs > Cl. HP xx HK SBK. Very reliable combo on Akuma… Akuma actually gets combo’d pretty well from Chun’s Legs in general.
The Chun-Akuma match is going to be so easy from now on, its funny how it just went from one extreme to another IMO.
But yun is back ^^
why is that?
Yes Yun will be awful.
With Akuma, assuming the vortex is done for or even severally limited then the major reason chun loses the matchup is eliminated or limited.
Chuns ground game is far better and it seems like the new combos with SBK will make it easier to put him in the corner
I feel like Akuma players will really hate this match going forward.
idk tbh hard to believe