SFA3: All about Zangief

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter Alpha Anthology
21

Other Match-ups

Posted by Apoc on 06-17-2002 01:39 PM:

…

Also, who beats V-Gief. No, really. Who does Gief lose to? Not who does well. Who should he lose to, outright? Reasons?

Apoc.

Posted by SaBrE on 06-17-2002 01:51 PM:

i think he downright loses to sodom. b+fierce just owns his ass. i just do b+fierce, slide all day long. works pretty well for me. akuma does well if you play a keepaway game with air fireballs. but i still think its in giefs favor. even though better players will disagree saying akuma wins. then you got the sim vs gief issue. but honestly, gief does well vs sim in this game IMO.

my personal favorites to take gief out are v-sodom and A-charlie. i like A-charlie over v-charlie in this fight cuz i can do the backhand during a charge unlike in V, and it hits gief mid. good range attack for fighting gief IMO

Posted by Apoc on 06-17-2002 02:42 PM:

I definately agree with A-Charlie against V-gief. I like it because a level 1 flash kick outlasts the invincibility of a vc activation And that early cr. fierce kills all V-giefs jump ins(not so against A-Gief, wtf ) I also agree about Sim. I’m interested in checking Sodom But can’t do back fierce vs. a charged V-Gief or rather, you shouldn’t unless Gief is facing the left, heheh. The slide, I would think, could be good but wouldn’t you slide into a lot of extended range grabs? I’ve never played the match(that I can recall). Wouldn’t cr. jab or st.short beat the slide?

*Posted by Mouko on 06-17-2002 04:22 PM: *

Gief loses to Sim, Akuma, Sak, Charlie and Sodom, though Sim vs Akuma and Charlie is pretty close.

Sim is obvious. Sak keeps him out well with s.rh, j.short, b+fierce, anti air with c.fierce -> jab dp and of course, VC. Charlie and Akuma though its pretty close, they both have good midscreen VCs and normals to poke him out with (standard footsies)

Posted by SaBrE on 06-17-2002 04:36 PM:

i dunno. i guess i just dont play against gief correctly with akuma. i just try to zone out with far hopkick pokes into low forward fireball or b+rh. and like jump straight up air fireball into b+rh poke. i know dive kicks are just asking for free spd. around my neck uv da woods, i beat gief with akuma. but like when wilson came down and beat my with his gief, i couldnt do shit that i normally do. prolly just lack of outside comp i guess.

Posted by Apoc on 06-17-2002 05:36 PM:

I don’t know. Honestly I think Gief kills all shotos with ken being the most difficult barring the super meter(normals and specials).

Mouko:Akuma has good pokes to keep Gief out? Like what? Sabre’s strat works if you omit the extended range grab. But why omit that when everyone can do that by now? Sim isn’t for free at all as long as Gief is basic with machine gun low jabs, katobbi cancels, low RH cc to otgs(can’t recover teleport either), jumping jabs and knees, well timed kkk clotheslines… Gief may get gc’d here and there but from far? Who cares? I’d say it’s in Sim’s favor but I can’t agree that he beats Gief for free. Perhaps further explaining of the precise strat? Sorry, it’s just not obvious to me.

lol, I’m still trippin’ on the Akuma thing. In a match of Akuma vs. Gief, I have to give it to gief. Aside from air hurricanes and the jumping jab(both of which can lead to an spd now whereas before they were God in the match:P) I don’t see anything but his nasty vcs. Outside of the Vmeter, I’ve always thought that Gief won. Is this a teleport thing? Teleport doesn’t help sim where Gief gets his damage. Although, I can see how it can help Akuma out some. I’m assuming there must be VC set ups that Gief can’t avoid?

Maybe I have gone A3 dumb:P

Apoc.

*Posted by Mouko on 08-22-2002 05:05 PM: *

V-gief is good, but does get beat by Sim (slide anti air owns him), Akuma, Sak, charlie and Sodom. Akuma has too many VC set ups, sak has too many good normals as does charlie and sodom. Gief has to inch foward and try to get in, in which he’s suspectable to a VC.

*Posted by toilet on 06-18-2002 09:45 AM: *

I play a lot of Gief and figured I’d put in my 2 cents. V-Akuma fights much like any other V-Akuma fight, not really any more or less frustrating. Same with Charlie to a certain extent. It’s a good fight though. Dhalsim definately has the advantage, though I don’t feel it’s a ‘for free’ battle. I have Chensor’s old Gief vs. Sim strategy post and will post it if anyone’s interested. I’d put A-Dhalsim and V-Sakura as the toughest matches, though I’m not a Gief expert by any means. I think the kattobi cancels are a little overrated. They have their place, however I see more meter mileage coming from a lariat / green hand / otg VC. During play I don’t see many times where I feel the necessary. I’m open to seeing someone fly all over the screen and do well with it though.

Posted by V-Gat on 06-18-2002 08:13 PM:

Actually (For me) I find his Katobbi cancel better serves my meter usage… If you can play Gief well, there really is no point to use his VC unlesss to get yourself out of trouble… I mainly use the KC (Katobbi Cancel) to help close the gap between me and my opponent… Plus on half meter it does about half life damage, not bad for meter usage… Just KC and when you are flying at the opponent hit fierce, crouching short, crouching roundhouse, whiff banishing flat OTG roundhouse 360… The one match I feel that you should learn it is Sim matches, makes it so much less stressful to get in on the bastard…

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*Posted by Sabin on 06-16-2002 01:17 PM: *

On V-Vega vs V-Gief = gief owns Vega for free if he knows kattobi cancel, because, outside of counter vc when he splashes at you with kattobi (his stand short into flipkick into b+rh VC) he cannot do anything, and he loses 50% for free. however, if he cant do kattobi cancel, the fight isnt so bad, imo he can keep gief out for a long period of time with low strong, flipkick, or KK throw if he tries to jump. Superior walking speed helps too. The matchup is still way not in vegas favor, cuz you have to poke him 40 times to win, and he only has to hit you like 8 or 9 times? I believe. So you have to be careful. But I don’t mind playing that match, although Gief still wins it.

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*Posted by Sir-Jabs-Alot on 07-23-2002 01:52 PM: *

One of the biggest reasons we don’t use V-Gief is because of CHARLIE-GOD’s A-Charlie. The V-Gief gets punished by Charlie’s Low Fierce. The A-Gief can splash it pretty well. V-Gief has different properties than A-Gief in case you didn’t know. Weird. Gief is a good character against Birdie so that will be a good fight. Like I said, other than CHARLIE-GOD’s A-Charlie and the different Gief users. That Birdie destroys everyone else.

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*Posted by mondu_the_fat on 09-14-2002 05:14 PM: *

DespideR: I agree with Gunter. Z-Gen is a headache for me when I play Gief. None of Gen’s normals really will help against a jumping Gief, but the waterfall kick stops Gief cold, whether it be splash or knees.

Most Gen matches I’ve fought revolve around Gen turtling and relying on the waterfall kick. I think this is because Gen players realize that Gen , realistically, can’t jump on Gief either (lariat, VCs, etc.). I’m reduced to playing footsie and SPDing max range, but a badly whiffed poke usually means a standing FP down my throat.

V-gief has a slight advantage over Z-gief in this match-up because of VC invulnerability, which can help against the waterfall kick (but not always – goddamn low altitude diagonally angled multihit anti-air).

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Miscellaneous

*Posted by Gunter on 07-22-2002 06:20 PM: *

Am I the only A-Gief in the country?

I know V-Gief is better, but he’s just too boring to me. Seriously, the ONLY reason I play A3 anymore is to land Anti-Air FAB. But he dies to almost any V-ism character when at equal skill levels. Just checking to see if anyone else is crazy enough to use him in A.

If you’re talking about Anti-Air FAB, yes it’s for X and A Gief only. It’s a technique I imported (smuggled) from Japan - when the opponent jumps at you with an attack, right before they hit you, crouch and whiff short (you can also whiff a throw). While the short animation is out, do your 720 motion and they’ll land right in your Final Atomic Buster.

I actually got this on my first try at the ST tournament at SVGL on Saturday. Because ST whiffs are faster, I whiffed forward instead of short, but it still grabbed them right when they landed. Gief is dope.

I’m thinking you could also use this tactic as a setup for the Glitchdriver VC in V-ism. But since I never really got that to work normally, I doubt I’d get it with this setup.

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*Posted by CHARLIE-GOD on 08-21-2002 06:01 PM: *

And finally V-Gief. Where do I start with this guy. Damn he’s good. Besides the obvious (good damage, good defense, good reach, unblockable piledriver, good anti-air, etc.), the reason he’s so good is because of the VC’s. If you jump on him, he’s gonna take 70% life everytime. VC into kick clothesline --> sweep that is IMMEDIATELY cancelled into a green glove (repeat sweep cancel green glove) until corner then air throw them out of corner into more green gloves when they fall out of the corner. When done properly, it almost looks like he’s doing just green gloves. 70%+ just because you jump once. Then there’s the VC traps in the corner. In the corner he can activate into a splash, low short (repeat) Pretty tough to block or get out of even when it hits. You can repeat this or just go into a unblockable throw. If opponent get’s hit or blocks he still gets the unblockable double suplex. Then you can do a st.short into another one when they get up off the ground after they bounce out of the corner (non-DP characters) If you think they will DP, pause a sec then do it. He also has VERY VERY easy VC’s that do 50%+ damage. VC1 --> splash --> (low fierce OR {st.forward --> Fierce green glove)} --> double suplex throw then another throw combo as they are getting up (barring they have a DP or super) Then there is the VC activation where he flies 3/4 the way across the screen. You can piledrive your opponent then VC 3/4 the way across the screen as they are getting up into a (hit or blocked) combo into another unblockable throw.

This is MY OPINION ONLY on these characters.

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Zangief is the man, period! Marvel vs Capcom 2’s the only game he sucks in, becasue of how they fucked up everything! In all other games, he represents lovely!:cool:

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bump

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after extensive testing i’ve come to the conclusion that zangief can be played equally well by trained monkeys. chestnuts anyone?

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Question on glitchdriver:

Is it possible to properly glitchdriver X-Cody? Right after the first siberian suplex X-cody seems to bounce slightly further away than other characters, and I can’t siberian him again. OTG SPD or running grab works fine though.

And could the guy who originally posted the relative difficulties of doing the glitchdriver on various characters do so again? It would be much appreciated.

Ja-Ei-Ken: While I do love the Z3 threads, I believe that there’s something in the rules against bumping them up…

31

ditto. jump straight up neutral fierce is the devil

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haha, damn straight. and you thought sim had reach lol. when all else fails though, just chestnuts(splash)

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Congratz to u toilet,this is everything someone needs to know on Zangief in A3.

I would like to congratulate Gunter for his match against Join Choi,he won with V-Zangief,I’m mensioning it because i think in the match he started the GlitchDriver (I think the opponent K.Oed before he was able to pull off the second siberian suplex,but it can show you how it works a bit).

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WAS PLAYING ART AKA SABIN THE OTHER DAY A-GIEF VS A-BISON IT WAS FUNNY AS HELL IN THE LAST ROUND I STARTED TO SPIN JOYSTICK AFTER HE KNOCK ME DOWN SO HE JUMPED UP AND I DID THE AIR GRAB SUPER AND TOOK HIM OUT

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Recently, Panmarblic asked me for some A-Gief tips through e-mail, so I wrote up a real quick brain dump to him. Most of this information is repeated info, but it focuses on A-Gief more than V-Gief. So I’m printing my brain dump to him (it really is a brain dump, no organization, just a bunch of stuff spewed out in real time) here for more info:

Sorry to take so long to reply, but haven’t had a lot of free time
lately. :slight_smile: But I’ll manage to give you the few things you MUST
learn with A-Gief in order to do well…

First of all, regardless of WHICH Zangief you use, you MUST learn the
Extended Pile Driver trick. Are you aware of how to do it or what it
is? If not, lemme know and I’ll explain. Otherwise, I’ll jsut say
this: GET GOOD AT DOING THIS. If you do, your chances are increased
ten fold. Maybe even 20 fold.

Learn how to properly anti-air with the 3P lariat. In order to use
this anti-air proerly, ALWAYS DO IT FROM CROUCHING. Hitting 3P will
stand Zangief up autoamtically. So you can let the enemy fall above
you, hit 3P and you’ll stand up into them and be guaranteed that your
first, invincible animation frame connects. If you try from standing,
you’ll trade a lot. Maybe even lose sometimes.

Learn which characters have a way to stop the Splash (Jumpnig Down +
Fierce). Seriously, if they can’t? There is no reason to ever stop
using this move once you get on top of them. Like Rolento? you get
on top of him and just do Down + Fierce in the air, land, jump again
and repeat. Until he somehow escpaes or until he’s dead. Seems
stupid, but it works, and you gotta do it.

Some characters CAN stop it, but many players may not know how. Test
them out. If you are playingagainst Guy, try Jumpnig at him with Down

  • Fierce. If he gets owned up, just do it and pretend he doesn’t know
    the Counter. Repeat until he takes sufficient damage. :slight_smile: If he
    KNOWS the proper counter (Crouching Strong, of all things), you’re
    gonna have to learn how to switch to Down + Forward when you Jump on
    top of the enemy. This will NOT beat most of the moves like Down +
    Fierce will, but it doesn’t ever LOSE to any moves. At worse, it
    trades (with every except DPs).

Also, when you Jump, your hit box is small. If you touch a button, it
grows. So if someone like Gen is good at Crouch Fiercing (his
anti-air) your Zangief’s Jumping Down + Fierce, try Jumping and doing
nothing and SPD’ing when you land. Sometimes, by not hitting a
button, you stay “smaller” so that his move passes harmlessly by and
you grab when you land.

Leanr the magic distance. What’s the magic distance? Jumpnig at the
enemy let’s you do a Magic Jab SPD (since Jab SPD has longest range)
when you land. But you’re still in range for neutral Jumping Fierce
to connect. But if you don’t touch a button, and the enemy DP’s,
they’ll miss you completely. This is HUGE. Jumping at Vega, for
example, you can jump at a distance that you can beat his Normal Move
anti-air with a Jumping Fierce but still avoid his Razor Kick
completely if you touch no button. You might be able to SPD when you
land as well, if you distance it jsut right.

If you jump over a Fireball and want to attack, never use Fierce.
NEVER USE FIERCE. Use Jumping Strong. Jumping Fierce puts your legs
back into the Fireball you just Jumped over.

Best ground pokes are Standing Short, Standing Forward, Crouch Fierce,
and Ofeensive Crouching Roundhouse. Short and Forward and Crouch
Fierce will be the basis of your ground game, but Off. Roundhouse is
crucial to sneaking in a quick hit while they are standing, so you can
go in for the kill. Forward has great priority. Short is just the
best “quick” move, along with Crouching Jab, which i also good to use
every so often.

Never forget to simply grab the enemy when they get up off the floor.
Sweep them, walk up, and use Extended SPD grab on them right when they
get up.

The best use of his Super Meter is the Level 3 Anti-Air super. But
NEVER EVER EVER EVER try it out by itself. It has no priority.
However, learn this Combo: Stand Jab into Level 3 Anti-Air Super.
Stand Jab is a good anti-air move and whether or not it’s a Counter
Hit, the Super will connect afterwards. HUGE damage, easy Combo.
Just do Fireball + Jab, Fireball + Roundhouse. By far, you’ll use
your super the most this way. If they ever jump at you, do this. But
try to save it for when it’ll kill them or if you need a comeback.
Don’t just do it right away because then you lose the anti-air
intimidation factor.

You can use the above for anti- SPD tick getaways, too. You can learn
to do Crouching Jab x 2 into SPD. It’s tough, but really good and
sudden. But if the enemy tries to Jump away, sometimes, it’s hard to
grab them. So do two Crouch Jabs. If you see them jump away,
Fireball + Jab, Fireball + Roundhouse should be able to catch them,
esp. if you have them in the corner.

Also, Crouching Short into 720 is always a good way to try a
desperation Level 3 damage. You can even do it as anti air. :slight_smile:
When you do Crouching Short, Zangief’s hit box shrinks height-wise
tremendously. Let the enemy jump, do Crouching Short and if the enemy
tries to hit you with timing as if you were standing, their Jump
Attack will whiff. Use the Crouching Short to anchor you to the floor
and do 720 + Fierce timed to come out when the enemy lands.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER use Level 1 or 2, unless that’s all you’ve got.
Otherwise, just pretend they don’t exist. No reason to ever use them
if you have a full meter. It’s Level 3 or nothing at that point.

Hrm… What else?

Jumpnig Straight-up Fierce is a good “turtle” tactic, if you are
pressured and can’t think of what to do. It’s a good way to "reset"
the match and to gather your senses after a bad spell of being
attacked. Do it to throw the enemy off a bit, and then stop.
Regather yourself, and commence your offense.

I’d say that my offense relies mostly on baiting enemies into the
footsie game and then Jumping in and SPD’ing when I land when they
don’t expect it. Oh yeah, it’s almost ALWAYS better to preface that
with a Jumping Forward. Do Jumping Forward, land into SPD. Jumping
Forward at the height of your jump will whiff on 95% of standing
characters, and it brain freezes the enemy: they think you attacked,
so they don’t try to react with anti air or jump away from SPD. They
just block. At that point, free SPD when you land.

Zangief is minimalist. Do as few moves as possible. Be VERY VERY
VERY patient. Don’t get frustrated. Even if you walk up and block 10
fireballs in a row against Charlie or Ryu, it doesn’t matter. Don’t
get discouraged, keep advancing.

To stop an Akuma who jumps straight up and Air Fireballs all day, Jump
at him with Jab or Short the instant you see him jump straight up. No
other button will work.

Oh yes!!! CRUCIAL CRUCIAL. The Kick Lariat beats everything. :slight_smile:
Learn how to use this move to stop pokes. It will beat ALL OF
DHALSIM’S LONG RANGED POKES. It’ll beat VEGA’S CROUCHING STRONG. But
it requires TIMING. You must activate it when the move is “in you”.
So against 'Sim, jump over a Fireball from a screen away and do Down +
Fierce. 'Sim can’t hit it, so he’ll do Crouching Fierce when you
land. When you land, hit 3K and it’ll beat 'Sim’s Crouching Fierce
and you can advance. It’s risky, but it’s key in anti-Sim match and
anti-Vega match.

Matches you MUST learn: Ryu, Akuma, Sakura, Rolento, Dhalsim. Maybe
Vega. Charlie. Others are all pretty much on Zangief’s favor, except
Gens who only use two buttons (Stand Roundhouse and Crouch Fierce).

Okay, that’s a really big brain dump from me for now. I’ll try to
think of anything else, but I have to go now. :slight_smile: Lemme know if you
need more info on the extended SPD range, and if you have any other
questions. I dunno how in depth I can get on certain match-ups, but
I’ll be glad to answer anyspecific questions.

  • James
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sweet post. i wish i would have known 3k lariat beats dhalsim pokes, because that’s how i lost in a tournament recently :frowning: as long as i could stay within 1-2 character lengths of sim everything was peachy, but as soon as he pushed me out beyond that ideal range i started to die the horrible poke death.

off topic: i’m looking for an a3 board to practice on if anyone knows of a good place to find one.

peace.

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Also, the lariat can be used as a reversal for jump-in attacks. If you happen to get accidentally snagged by one, immediately do the lariat.3P or 3K may depend on the jump-in, but usually either one is fine. I prefer 3P, though.

The defensive crouch sweep has the same animation as the other defensive crouch kicks, if anyone takes notice. Can be good for mind games.

I’m sleepy now. Later :cool:

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poking strings???

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jumping splash -> crouching Jab -> SPD.

Wow, beastly post by Mr. Chen.