-ryu vs. ryu, i’m otg (on the ground). my opponent does a meaty c.mk and i srk. his c.mk beats my srk. i try to mimic the same thing and i get beat by srk. will meaty attacks always beat wake-ups?
like others said, did you get a reversal if not then there’s no way a cr. mk should beat a srk on wake-up.
-same match-up. i’m otg. my opponent does a srk, i do srk, i get beat. i try to mimic the same thing when he’s otg and i get beat.
now this one needs more information. what version? did he do it after you? it matters cause some srk have more invincibility frames than others.
-i’m ryu and my opponent is dictator. he hits me into a combo and finishes with scissor kicks. i tech otg and see him in the air. i do srk and his j.fp beats my srk, and it seems my srk never even came out.
again did you see the reversal?
-i walk up to opponent to throw and my throw gets beaten by a c.jab into a combo.
Lmao, sounds like Vega in general >X). You could look in his general direction and beat a move. So many times I’ve had an airborne person mash buttons and hit claw out of a mach 4 ultra dive at them.
Anywho, more about getting in your opponent’s head than attempting something. I switch wakeup oki every single time. Overheard, then throw, then block, then focus bait, then low hit, then focus release… etc. I find a lot of people to do things twice though (throw, throw, guard, guard, etc, etc). Kind of where half the fun in SFIV lies.
If you’re still getting beat, could be an abundance of things already discussed, including lag hisss.
Good question. This has never really been dissected before, so here are my thoughts.
We all know how some moves like normals, dashes, and FAs never produce a reversal message. But it’s still possible to execute those moves on the first frame of recovery. To confirm, wake up into a meaty fireball. You’ll see that it’s possible to FA it, meaning you went straight from knockdown to FA. You can also backdash through it (at least partially), and if you hold back and mash a button you can actually get hit by the meaty fireball.
Some moves get a lenient reversal window. So if the reversal window is 3 frames (I’m just guessing it’s 3 frames for SF4), that means if you input the move on the first frame of recovery, or even 2 frames before that, the move will still come out on the first frame of recovery.
Moves that produce a reversal message (specials, supers, and ultras) get the lenient reversal window. And even though backdashes don’t get the message, it seems too easy to backdash on first-frame without some sort of assistance, so my guess is that backdashes (and maybe front dashes) get the lenient window. Everything else (including FAs) probably get only a 1-frame reversal window.
this would be my guess as well, it seems really easy to consistently “reversal” dash on wakeup. Even with lag present, I often meet opponents who manage to backdash out of my tick throws that only have 1-2 frame window.
I highly doubt the reversal window (non-super/special/ultra which is 10 frames) is 1 frame. The amount of times I’ve been jabbed out of a non-perfect meaty oicho is infuriating and considering that’s a 2 frame window, I doubt exhibit A scrub balrog is that good at his reversals.
I always thought you couldn’t reversal FA or wake-up FA though. I should try this as it seems like a good way around certain mix-ups cause you might take some small dmg but you dodge the 50/50 throw/combo mix-up cause you’re airborne.
Yeah on my planet we’ve killed superman like 5 times already. We even have people who can do half frame links.
Actually I remember someone said that Ed Ma figured that you only react to the game at 30FPS even though it technically runs at 60FPS. Whether that’s true or not I dunno.
I didn’t claim to know the actual numbers for the reversal windows. I was trying to describe the mechanism, not the parameters. I’m not too worried about the actual numbers. I intuitively know how reliable it is to attempt a reversal special/super/etc. (reliable) or a reversal normal/FA/etc (not reliable). But if you want my reasoning…
2 to 4 frames for specials/etc. because:
In CvS2 the window was 2 frames (documented in the Systems FAQs by Chen or Buktooth, which are based on the Japanese guide). It feels just a little bit easier than that in SF4 (but keep in mind CvS2 skips frames on default speed). Someone said 10 frames, which sounds ridiculous to me. The easiest links in this game are not even 10 frames. Are we getting this number form the guide books?
1 frame for normals/etc. because:
Try to wakeup FA a meaty fireball or Dictator slide. Much harder than wakeup super.
The fact that the game gives you a message saying “Reversal” suggests that something special is happening, right? Indeed, the game granted you a special input window to execute your move. It’s possible to execute normals/etc. as reversal, but why doesn’t it give the “Reversal” message? My feeling is because there is no special input window there, you are simply inputting the move on the recovery frame itself. (Backdash is definitely an exception, like I said before.)
10 frame reversal window was pulled from the sfiv bible I believe back when game first hit. That’s why this game is so scrub friendly. Most people don’t realize how hard it is to reversal in a four frame window like ST or CvS2. I guess backdash is probably 10 frame too because of the meaty FA problem that dev’s probably foresaw.
Also, this:
“So when I say there’s a 2 frame window to get a reversal-timed attack, that means that the window is exactly 1/30th of a second long (2/60). To any non-Street Fighter player, that kind of precision might seem pretty ludicrous for anybody to get consistently. But as most CvS2 players know, getting reversals is really quite easy in this game.”