SF4 Ryu Match-up Thread

DarthPaul1982 · 2010-09-02T19:22:22.000Z

^ Yah probs, I just started using stick a few weeks ago so no doubt Ill improve over time. Can you take a look at the guide I just posted and let me know your thoughts on the PRI bit? i think youll say its hella generous, but if you let me know where I should adjust the PRI timings I can edit the guide accordingly. Thanks!

wing-zer0 · 2010-09-06T20:22:08.000Z

DarthPaul has posted some very good Anti-Rose tips; much appreciated.

rashed786 · 2010-09-07T14:14:00.000Z

Quick question(s) regarding the Adon matchup. Can Adon be safe jumped after un-tech knockdown? His quickest rising Jag becomes active on frame 4, so frame data wise this seems possible. The only thing I’m not sure about his how quickly/slowly Adon gets up from un-tech knockdown. Can you sweep him and then instantly jump in with safe jump OS or do you have to delay it? For some reason I get the impression that Adon is getting up quicker then most chars from un-tech and therefore a Ryu sweep followed by immediate safe jump OS doesnt seem possible. Either that or I’m not jumping in immediately.

DarthPaul1982 · 2010-09-07T16:38:18.000Z

^ nope… just tested it. youre right, he gets up early = Profound Sadness. Already hated Adon n now…

rashed786 · 2010-09-07T17:06:58.000Z

DarthPaul1982:

^ nope… just tested it. youre right, he gets up early = Profound Sadness. Already hated Adon n now…

Thanks for testing that Darth, I thought I was losing my timing/marbles in this matchup. Like you I hate the Adon matchup, without Safe jump OS the match just got harder.

DarthPaul1982 · 2010-09-07T17:19:51.000Z

^ TBH its complete BS. Im hoping that when I finish the hado thread and then the footsies thread on top of that (will be like 3 weeks) that this match will finally makes sense, or at least will reveal itself to have a lot more strategy as opposed to spamming n guessing… SIGH!

rashed786 · 2010-09-07T17:32:50.000Z

DarthPaul1982:

^ TBH its complete BS. Im hoping that when I finish the hado thread and then the footsies thread on top of that (will be like 3 weeks) that this match will finally makes sense, or at least will reveal itself to have a lot more strategy as opposed to spamming n guessing… SIGH!

I look forward to reading your take on the Ryu vs Adon matchup. By the way, thanks for the advice you gave earlier re Ryu vs Dudley matchup…the part about buffering Tatsu when throwing c.mk as an OS. I dont know why I hadnt thought of that already.

AceKombat · 2010-09-07T22:47:17.000Z

There might be a safe-jump with Ryu against Adon somewhere , just most definitely can’t do it with sweep anymore . Just stick to throwing jab hadouken I guess after sweep . I’m sure for throws that there should be a safe-jump .

bguile · 2010-09-08T00:20:25.000Z

rashed786:

Quick question(s) regarding the Adon matchup. Can Adon be safe jumped after un-tech knockdown? His quickest rising Jag becomes active on frame 4, so frame data wise this seems possible. The only thing I’m not sure about his how quickly/slowly Adon gets up from un-tech knockdown. Can you sweep him and then instantly jump in with safe jump OS or do you have to delay it? For some reason I get the impression that Adon is getting up quicker then most chars from un-tech and therefore a Ryu sweep followed by immediate safe jump OS doesnt seem possible. Either that or I’m not jumping in immediately.

you can safe jump it on untech knockdown if the knockdown is a throw. if you sweep he can always rising jag.

pieton · 2010-09-08T01:24:13.000Z

Vs Cammy after a Sweep how can you put pressure on her wake up.
Since she wake up 1 frame later the attack of the Safe jump will whiff.

Lets pretend I am playing an opponent who knows he cant Cannon Spike
in that situation ( I have seen some Cammy get in a real loop, Sweep…jump , Cannon
Spike, Sweep and reapeat)

The best I can do seems an empty jump where I have
no frame advantage Where I am basically putting myself in a neutral position.
Of course I could try to delay my Safe jump by 1 frame but, it seem very impractical.

Also I have a hard time Safe jumpin Cammy from a throw set up and not eat
a Cannon Spike. All versions come out in 5 frames so, It should be possible but I cant
be missing my timing all the time.

On a related note about Safe jump option , do you think its really good to safe jump
Guile from a throw set up ? His Somersault reversal is 4 frame, 1 frame mess up and
you eat it in the face. Seem like a good gamble for a character with a 4 frames reversal.
Ok I could be mixing some empty jumping but I am sure a good player can see throw it.

Thx for your inputs

Neber · 2010-09-09T18:00:44.000Z

About the tv lag you mentioned. I’ve read that input lag exists from processing times up to 2-6 frames. And may differ between consoles… Maybe the game compensates for this, might be worth checking out, though it really is a minor detail.

Theli · 2010-09-09T18:32:11.000Z

The reason music games can compensate is because they can shift when the input needs to happen in relation to the video and audio put out. That just can’t happen with an opponent involved. You could theoretically do it for combo timing, but then you’re screwed in footsies and just general gameplay outside of that.

As to safe jumping guile from a throw, well… His anti-air seems to be pretty weak actually. It’s very easy to stuff if you do certain moves at certain ranges. So it doesn’t seem like too bad of an idea.

DarthPaul1982 · 2010-09-09T18:36:32.000Z

^ J.FP… what more do you need…? Guile’s C.FP is godlike, but flash kick is still shit. Anyway with 4 frame start-up, why worry? FREEEEEEEE

pieton · 2010-09-09T22:16:44.000Z

Anyway with 4 frame start-up, why worry?

.

I am worrying because even after hours of safe jumping and practice I am sure I am mistimming
my safe jump often by at least 1 frame. Nevermind I still do it all the time but I was thinking
that as a Guile player its probably an ok gamble to Flash kick.

How can you put pressure on Cammy or Sagat after a Sweep. The best you can do seem like
an empty jump witch is just a ‘false’ initiative.

Dannkk · 2010-09-10T00:11:30.000Z

I don’t avoid safe jumping those two. Need to remember that they know you’re safe jumping. They know the timing is strict, but it’s also a big risk for them to dp and guess if you had your timing wrong.

pieton · 2010-09-10T01:39:07.000Z

I don’t avoid safe jumping those two. Need to remember that they know you’re safe jumping. They know the timing is strict, but it’s also a big risk for them to dp and guess if you had your timing wrong.

Sagat and Cammy get up 1 frame late as I am sure you know, so I cant (realisticaly) time a meaty attack after a sweep. My safe jump become an empty jump. I know they cant reversal but what I am gaining by
empty jumping ? A good Sagat or Cammy will know they dont have to block high when I am jumping
after my sweep so my empty jumping just put me at a neutral position (I think)
It not a mind game since its my only option. I cant gain frame advantage.

Now from a throw set up its another story but I am looking how to keep initiative after a Sweep againt
Sagat or Cammy. Maybe I should just dash up and go ground wake up pressure

Dannkk · 2010-09-10T01:57:05.000Z

I got what you were saying. All I’m saying is you can still safe jump them. Just delay the frame and jump. You’re not going to get the timing perfect every time, but it’s a gamble for them to try and dp you out of it. Mix it up with crossup tatsus and ground pressure, and a lot of players will block the safe jumps. All I’m saying is, the 1 frame delayed wakeup is not a big enough deal to throw safe jumps out of your game for these 2 characters. They’re not Adon, Ken, Ryu or Akuma.

DarthPaul1982 · 2010-09-10T04:07:46.000Z

Dannkk:

I got what you were saying. All I’m saying is you can still safe jump them. Just delay the frame and jump. You’re not going to get the timing perfect every time, but it’s a gamble for them to try and dp you out of it. Mix it up with crossup tatsus and ground pressure, and a lot of players will block the safe jumps. All I’m saying is, the 1 frame delayed wakeup is not a big enough deal to throw safe jumps out of your game for these 2 characters. They’re not Adon, Ken, Ryu or Akuma.

Dannkk is 100% right on this IMO.

Neber · 2010-09-10T07:19:29.000Z

The beauty about safe jump timings is you don’t need to attack. It’s a trick to utterly confuse the opponent. NEVER believe that the other player is perfect, you need to find their weaknesses or create ones. One of the ways to do so is by Empty jumping to bait out reversals. They stop reversalling, and voila you now have a free jump in and a mix-up game, because you’re doing something unsafe, and they need to do something even more unsafe by guessing to beat your jumping game.

Neber · 2010-09-11T05:52:25.000Z

Neber:

The beauty about safe jump timings is you don’t need to attack. It’s a trick to utterly confuse the opponent. NEVER believe that the other player is perfect, you need to find their weaknesses or create ones. One of the ways to do so is by Empty jumping to bait out reversals. They stop reversalling, and voila you now have a free jump in and a mix-up game, because you’re doing something unsafe, and they need to do something even more unsafe by guessing to beat your jumping game.

The ugly thing is when you actually find a player who can either tell or guess the timings so right that it’s Scary. I was playing my friend who mains guy, and he could guess to a crazy degree what i was doing with my jumps, empty jump, safe jump, early fake safe jump etc, etc, etc he’d guess it right and guessed right so many times, and even ultra grabbed mean when i safe jumped. I do play him in all time so that probably helps him to know what i do, but still i’m not too sure what happened here.