Auto-correct DP or jump away. If you’re there, in front of him when the ultra flash goes off, you’re screwed, it will hit. Only way to counter it, is to watch his setups and when it looks like he’s trying to set up ultra(empty jump, w/e), you need to jump. If it’s a safe jump, jumping out won’t work, though. Probably will have to dp the empty crossup, if you can. Gief sucks…3 of the 5 players I play a lot locally play gief. ><
yea i figured that i’m screwed when he does that…i have tried like every move I can to counter but nothing works.
Yeah I DP all Zangief’s crossup all the time. 90% of the time, it trades but everytime it trades, it is in Ryu’s favor. Sometimes you time it wrong and DP wrongly and get punished but that’s not so often.
Anyone have some decent strats for fighting Viper? All the threads dont have any useful information on this match up. I have a strong Ryu and enter tournaments regularly but am having a very hard time against high level viper players. Where i am having difficulty is punishing her moves, to me it seems that 95% of her moves are safe for her. For example her c.mk xx electric knuckle (high), c.mk xx electric knuckle (low), back dash. The knuckles are safe for her on block and her back dash is god like moving her 2 zones and recover instantly. Also her flame kick i can easily dp it on reaction but this always trades in her favor, and recovers instantly on block so its impossible to even hit the reversal. Plus her ex seismic has invincibility so when i go for a simple poke to see whether i can hit confirm into something meaty, the poke simply goes through her and she gets to land her seismic hammer, flame kick Ultra. Any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated.
cr.mk xx mp/lp knuckle is not a true blockstring. You can DP before the knuckle. Use this with caution, obviously.
Both LP and MP knuckles are at frame disadvantage on block so if Viper likes to string together a couple of cr.mk/mp xx knuckle you can stuff the second attempt with cr.mp/lp.
You can FADC flame kicks or abuse neutral jump MP to stuff flame kick happy players.
EX hammers on wake up can be punished with various option selects or simply by delaying your poke. You can safe jump her on untechable KDs all day, and safe jump DP option select beats everything if she touches a button.
If you see a Viper player backdashing after the knuckle, throw an ex-fireball. It’ll catch up with her. Don’t DP the flame kick unless you’re using EX. Focus attack it instead. You can get a Level 2 focus in after every flame kick. The only thing to worry about is her doing it to land behind you, in which case you just dash forward.
Air control is very important in this match. Neutral jumps are good to do every now and then. Try to control the air with neutral jump mp, ub.hp, and uf.mp so you can land a combo afterward.
The whole EX-hammer thing is a guessing game. Try to bait one and neutral jump it. If you want to be safe, just block it. If you see a Viper playing using this a lot, try to realize when and where she does it and predict it in the future.
Thanks for that Scourge and yflow, excellent tips. When playing the high level vipers its hard to abuse the nuetral jump i found especially when she can fake a move then does her up knuckle seismic shennanigans, but thats probably more my fault as it was the only thing i knew worked against her and probably doing it to much. I knew that you could FA the flame kick but i thought that she would recover to quickly to even hit her with the level 1 FA and would dash back out of it…obviously i was worng again. But i am happy about being worng this time lol. These few things are definitly going to change alot for me in this match up.
Scourge, which option selects can be used to counter the ex hammer, or which do you recommend?
Thanks again guys
You can do any blockstring starting with a meaty cr.lk and option select a sweep, a DP or cr.mp/hp in case the cr.lk whiffs. All of these will beat an EX hammer. Sweep will also beat backdash. However, you will lose to HP knuckle and probably to EX flame kick.
The non-gambling way is to safe jump with HP and option select a DP. That will beat all her options, forcing her to block. You can then proceed with mixups.
meaty close hk beats or trades (favorable to you) with all viper’s wake-up options except ultra
Viper gets raped by safe jumps. The key is to get some momentum and hopefully end the round before she can start any shennanigans.
VIPER :
man… shes a tough lil bitch. IMO, best counters / set-up are:
FLAME KICK : just C.MK everytime and hit her with SRK
knuckle high/low : C.MK… also remember you can use hados from around zone 2 (close but just out of reach so she cant hit your outreached hands when you FB). Most peeps dont seem to do FBs on Viper, but from closer I find it to be a real advantage
Ground Pound : LK tatsu over it to close space and stay airborne.
on YOUR wake-up : if she’s in the air be ready with a C.MK to counter flame, else just block
on HER Wake-uip : HA HA!!! she is now FOCKED (should be anyway). Safe jump in, OS FP SRK, C.LK C.LK ~ OS FP SRK, S.LP… frame traps, throws etc… just OS the FP SRK on EVERYTHING (I sometime even OS FP SRK on a blind C.MP - if she counters shes fucked). LEAVE A COUPLE OF EMPTY FRAME GAPS EVERY SO OFTEN - she wont have time to reversal safely and you can once again have fun with OSs.
Above anything else, put her in the corner and constantly attack, leaving odd 1 frame gaps here and there and OSing a FP SRK on literally everything you do… her options to get out of this are so poor it’s unreal.
HAVE FUN!
Great tips guys thanks a bunch. I am going on the hunt for some vipers now ;p
What are you alls take on Akuma and his demon flip/air tatsu mix up? I am finding it becomes a big guessing game. With the demon flip i find can dp the grab version but it trades with the kick. Hence where the guessing game comes. If you try to block the grab…well you get grabed and if i dp and they kick well it trades in there favor.
With the Akumas who like to do a( hp demon flip kick, cmp, lp demon flib grab string) that a c.hp will stuff the flip (grab or kick) as long as they are doing it close. Similarly with his air tatsu, from a certain range if they do the air tatsu they will cross you up and sweep then possibly do it againb but if they did a jumping normal it would hit you in the front, another guess. I normally block the air tatsu and sweep and then just back dash so they cant set it up again, seems to be the only option here. These are just a few things i am finding against akumas. Any thought?
who here thinks honda is free? i gobble up ryus daily
Yea if you think honda’s are free then I suggest you play jewelman_
tl;dr the Viper stuff.
Quick easy tip. cMK. ALL DAY. It goes right under all her burning kicks, just grab her or something afterwards or hit confirm if you want. It stuffs some of those TKs and yeah… she has no burning kick mix ups at all if you just cMK underneath it. She really can’t do jack shit about it.
JDG, Akuma:
Demon flips is way too risky on Ryu. You probably won’t see many of them. Just cHP it. If you trade, it’s still in your favor Akuma’s dive kick does not do 130+ damage. You’re timing the SRK or cHP wrong if you’re losing in that trade. LP SRK works as well for all of the demon flips, just time it if he’s using it inside a combo as a mix up. If they’re throwing it out there from half screen or more you can time an HP SRK or jump back fierce.
The cross up tatsu or jump in combo is a big part of the vortex. Yeah, they’re gunna do this. Yeah it’s a guessing game. It’s just how Akuma is made. The only advice I can give here is they’re likely going to try the cross up tatsu first and then go for a regular jump in afterwards. Eating an HP SRK from Ryu because you decided to just jump in right away isn’t worth the risk so I would say 4/5 times you see cross up tatsu first. If the spacing is right you can try a wake up back dash. You might completely clear the tatsu and they’ll whiff. Pressure him after this but don’t be too hasty.
Any advice for dealing with Ken’s forward kicks? I see alot of players do f >mk to cr. mk over and over and if you even try to get a hit in, you just get stuffed. It easily pushes you towards the corner. You can’t c. lp to stop it.
C.LP, c.MP, and s.LP beat the f.MK -> c.MK trap. Use either one when you see the f.MK coming. If you try to catch the c.MK, you’ll usually trade.
Vs. Honda question:
How do you deal with a turtling Honda? Let’s say he’s sitting on Ultra and/or Super so you can’t fireball, and he’s not really doing anything. If you get close, his s.hk will tag you before you can get within c.mk range, and if you block it, you’re just pushed right back to where you were. Right now I kind of put some space between us so that his ultra won’t reach me if I throw fireballs and I start throwing them, but I lose a lot of ground that way.
Also, what do you do when people focus dash through your fireballs? A red fireball will occasionally catch them, but sometimes that turns into a guessing game, and I hate to throw away meter.
I dont have a good answer for the Honda question so I will let other people answer.
I want to add my grain of salt of how to deal with the f.mk , c.mk trap of Ken. I was actually playing one today for many games and I didnt have any great solutions
so I went to the training room recording Ken doing f.mk, c.mk xx fb over and over again. Some things I have notice:
-after blocking the f.mk you can Srk before their c.mk come out, but its oviously dangerous if they decide to simply go f.mk , block. But against predictable Ken
and if you have 2 ex bar and ultra behind it could be deadly.
-if they do their f.mk to close from you, you can simply grab after block before the c.mk come out.
-you can also Focus level 1 and get a counter hit.
-Now lets say you simply decide to block the f.mk and the c.mk . If you know they are going to cancel into a Fireball you can hit foward and you have time to focus
the fireball , dash and punish. Learned this trick from the Aks216 tread ( foward, focus) . Work great against Akuma and vs a far c.mk xx fb from Ryu.
- going for a trade with c.mk doesnt appear the best solution since your commited and if your timing is a little bit off you eat the whole thing.
What I’ve found which usually works if Ken is standing in a position (prob mid screen) where you think he can start his f>mk and you know it will connect, simply throw out some standing Jabs. From experience, this totally stuffs the f>mk (please try this in training room to be sure of exact range). If you can stuff the f>mk to begin with then you dont need to worry about the c.mk, fireball.
If on the other hand you’ve blocked the f>mk and your pretty sure he’s going to follow up with cr.mk then you can throw out a lp srk.
If you’ve blocked the f>mk, c.mp, then you will have to either block the fireball or you could possibly focus attack level 1 his fireball, stunning him. I dont use fadc against kens fireball in this situation as some kens will throw out a hurricane kick or fierce DP rather then the fireball.
The problem comes about when Ken knows his distances and will throw a f>mk knowing he/she will land just outside of your hit range and then block, waiting for you to whiff an srk or do nothing. If you whiff a hp srk then your going to eat serious punishment, if you throw out lp srk then you have a chance of escaping with less damage. If you do nothing, he will either walk over to you and throw you or he will jump in and try crossing you up with mk or lk.