I personally think as far as fighting games go, you either have ‘it’ or you don’t. I know friends who love SF4, and have invested endless hours in it and still suck balls, with little to no discernable improvement. Then they spend exactly the same number of hours on another game and friggin rule at it.
Fighting games require a specific mindset to play IMO… if you don’t have you’ll keep on scrubbing.
I think some people have the wrong idea. Like in any sport, study, or skill, genetics play a role. The same applies to SF and Video Games in general. But this is not saying that if you were born with lesser “talents” than the next guy that you can’t train yourself to be better. Though you do have to train harder, technically, than that person since they sort of have a head start on you.
practice
The earlier you learn to do anything…the greater chances you have of becoming a great at it. People trying to get good at this game when they are already in their late teens/early 20’s have a lot of work ahead. Especially when your reflexes start to degrade after the age of 18. That’s why most FPS champs retire at the age of 25. Luckily reflexes and execution only plays one small part it what it means to be a strong SF player and that’s why you have people like Alex Valle who are in their 30’s still placing top 3 in tourneys.
Players like Justin Wong and Daigo have had an upbringing of playing fighting games seriously from a young age so they’ve sponged up everything and can think and react and can put themselves in the correct position to attack long before the opponent even has an idea of what to do.
Anyone can learn to play SF well enough to place top 8 at a local tournament or even a major if they are taught the right things. The reason people “don’t have it” in SF is because they aren’t taught or learn for themselves the right things and don’t practice the right things consistently. Therefore SF still becomes an anamoly for them and they give up when they really weren’t that far away from being a better player. The only way to really put that all together is through a good amount of play with the strongest players so that you can learn where your mistakes are and cover them.
There’s a book called Playing to Win by David Sirlin that talks about playing games competitively based on Sun Tzu’s art of war… most of the examples in the book are based on Street Fighter
Coincidence?
This is my first ever Street Fighter and my level of play for only playing 6 months is very high. The reason I got so good at this game so fast was learning. I would sit and think about doing combos in my head, and then when I’d come back to the game, I could do them. After I refined my execution (refined, meaning I’d do combos in slow tempo just like how I play drums then speed it up, and I’d always be aware of where each finger was, how my hands are moving, how fast I need to perform the links, not a single detail was beyond my awareness) I then started to work on the niche stuff like frame dis and advantages, buffering vega’s charge ultra through a focus, comboing into it… Honestly I only play this game about 4 hours total a week but I get so much better than others so much faster because I am very calculated in my approach to this game. Maybe it’s because I am a writer and drummer, that the practice I have put into those things (especially drums) is what makes me so good at practicing SF.
As soon as I learned the mindgame aspect of this game, I began to refine that too. Finding out what people tend to do most often, learning how to read people, finding situations where people often perform moves, etc.
I am a firm believer in the fact that talent is non-existant. People always think that singers are born with it, which is completely false. People can get good at singing just like they can get good at anything… If you practice the right way then talent can be completely overlooked. I think the closest thing to talent is natural understanding of things, which takes concentration and an apt and meticulous frame of mind. I try to keep that frame of mind when I approach anything. Learn and be aware, and you can get good at anything. Talent is a myth.
Another important aspect of getting better at something is the willingness and readiness to accept your weaknesses. When I played the coutnless SF matches online that I did, when I lost, I would never try to blame mechanics or lag, even if it seemed like I really did get cheesed out. You always make mistakes and the ability to recognize them and fine-tune those aspects of your gameplay make you a much better player. Links and combos are a good example: if you arent hitting them in matches, dont blame inputs, or the stick youre using, or the lag, blame yourself. Head back into training and pound the same combo out for 45 minutes if you have to… until it becomes second nature.
i use to get my ass handed to me every single day of childhood by my brother in street fighter 2 or dragon ball z for snes, it got to the point where i thought he was looking at my controller seeing what i was pressing or was about to press. never told me how to do special moves and even then i had to learn tactics and the ins and outs of the games
now he cant beat me in any combat game
ive become fairly versed in many fighting games, tekken series and compete in tourneys, street fighters, soul caliber 2, DOA2, and rank 3 in welterweight top 10 overall in fight night round 3 XBL (most deep fighting game ever made IMO). different periods of times with different fighting games.
always surrounded by fighting, PPV boxing and most recently MMA
with all my friends who do or dont play video games or arent into fighting games at all, their perplexed with fighting game tactics and my skill
your not born to fight your bred to fight.
patience, execution, and wit are good traits to have
or you can be a nerd and have strategies that will eventually fall apart and plateau at that.
there are always ways to get better
I was with you up until that paragraph, but that’s just silly. I think that talent is more often than not hugely overrated; practice and dedication are far more important in almost every case I can think of.
Maybe you just didn’t choose your words wisely - do you seriously believe that nobody in the world has a natural disposition for certain activities?
Yes. Mainly due to the fact that like the article on page 1 said, genes do not have any bearing on skills or abilities because skills and abilities cannot be inherited. Not that I can prove it, but if a baby was born and raised in a basketball community, he could be good at basketball when he’s older. How can anybody prove that that same baby, being raised in a hockey environment instead, can still be good at basketball? Obviously you can’t, but I can’t prove the contrary either. I’m firmly of the opinion that there are little niche things, like say the way a parent moves when a baby watches him. This parent is dexterous, and the baby mimics these movements when he grows up and is hence a little better at handling a basketball. I’m no psychology major or anything but that’s as much as I can gather. It all depends on your environment and how one learns to move and how one learns to learn.
EDIT: I believe some people have a disposition for certain activities. But a natural disposition? that would imply that the only factor is genetics, which I do not think is the case. When I say that I think some people have a disposition for certain activities it could be from any number of contributing factors. Just like how people’s personalities are shaped from experiences, I think the way skills are acquired are the same way.
Playing street fighter it’s like playing guitar .
Talent simply mean you’re going to have a smaller learning curve.Because it’s feel more natural for you .
Some people are simply born with immense talent in something.But someone who ain’t very talented that put a lot of dedication in what’s doing can surpass genius .
In physical prowess it’s mostly genetic . Take for exemple track and field.Usain bolt … he’s clearly gifted in genetic for running and Phelps for swimming.I’m not saying they don’t work has hard.But they’re gifted.
Take for exemple a Chimpanzee … Even if you train and take steroid.A chimpanzee will always bench more than you.
But Geez …If that stop you from doing what you love in life … You’re going to have a sad life.
But some people put so much dedication that they surpass the limit of what we though could be accomplished.Like i said.Maybe Usain’s genetically gifted.But what he has done’s simply phenomenal and can’t be archieved simply because you’re gifted.
Daigo he’s maybe gifted.But that not just it that make it one of the best sf player in the world.
Imagine winning something big and someone told you
-But you’re so gifted.
My answer would be a big
F.U
I totally agree with you bro, its all in a matter of who you train or practice with and find a way to improve and refine your skill more. its called adaptation and evolving, which the human is best at. also the difference between a gift and non gift are the gifted one improve faster but that doesn’t mean a dedicated one can’t surpass them. all in all use your skill and brain wisely.
I think many people who are claiming that they aren’t getting much better even after months of practice aren’t really practicing in the right way. You can’t really expect to get better if you keep repeating the same mistakes. As they saying goes “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.
Take for example the Hard Trials on the console version. Many people just can’t seem to get through them because they just keep mindlessly repeating the same motions hoping that maybe they’ll get lucky. The mind doesn’t work like that. If you repeat the same incorrect motions, connections will build between neurons in your brain because that’s what your mind thinks you want to do. This is how muscle memory is built. To train effectively, you need to consciously tell yourself you’re the wrong thing. Get upset will yourself if you make mistakes, and praise yourself if you succeed. This helps ensure that your mind doesn’t build connections for bad habits, and fosters building of connections for good habits. This is why the best sports coaches are often the harshest critics.
If you’re practicing for ages and not getting anywhere, it’s very likely that the problem is that you’ve unconsciously taught yourself to do the wrong thing.
Wow, this has blown way out of proportion.
To get good at a fighting game (“good” is relative, anyways), you have to not only have experience and knowledge, but you have to be in an environment that challenges how you play, because if you’re not getting challenged, then you’re gonna lose if someone poses a challenge. The players with a lot of experience are used to those situations. Then, on top of that, the top of the top have natural talent in addition. Or some people have more natural talent and lack in other parts. Ultimately, those with the best of all the above factors combined are the best.
People use Americans in Japan as an example. While they may get better because theyre playing better competition (which makes perfect logical sense), that doesn’t necisarilly mean that they’ll be good at the game. Any random American can come live in Japan for a couple years and dedicate themselves to playing fighters, but just because they live here doesn’t mean they’re good. There’s always people who just aren’t as good as the top players. I know some Blazblue players that can like, never break top 4, but they’re at every tournament, and they know all the combos and they know a lot about their character, and have played tons of matches, yet lack the natural talent required to get top 4 at a tourney or whatever.
The top players are essentially a combination of both environment, experience, and natural talent. You can’t say that natural talent has no effect.
An example would be a long time ago, I played Tekken against some guy that, combined on all his tekken cards (he had like, 10), he had over 20,000 matches under his belt. on my card, I had roughly 800-900, and I was beating this guy 5 in a row consistently. He has more experience, he’s obviously playing in Japan, but he just lacks the natural talent to get really good at Tekken. His best card (7000 plays or so) was still worse than my one character. Not everyone can become Daigo and Justin, thats why they’re Daigo and Justin. A lot of people have potential to become top players, and other players, no matter how hard they try, simply don’t have what it takes, even if they dedicated their lives to it.
Just read all of the threads in this sub section and everyone will begin to understand. This information does not only apply to fighting games, but will help you with anything that is competitive.
You will never be as good as Daigo. He was a champ at SF since the 90s. if you get a decade of experience, maybe you’ll be pretty good, but by that time, daigo would have retired, so you’ll never know.
I don’t think you’re born with talent at Street Fighter, instead let’s say you have really fast hands from playing the piano or something like that, then you can play based on reaction and hit hard to hit combos, if you’re just smart and like to think things through, then maybe you’ll play based on mix up tactics, zoning and other strats, if you’re good at reading your opponent, then hell… you can make calculated hits for big damage that your opponent won’t see coming.
And of course, as stated within these 4 pages of posts, the stronger your competitive area, the stronger you will be, because you will learn to adapt your gameplay against advanced players.
If you just started learning the game, don’t expect to be good at SFIV. Hope you’ll have learned SF well enough by the time SFIV: Dash or SFV come out.
The actual level of competition is so low in Street Fighter games that genetic variance could never be a big enough factor to outweigh actual learning processes. And your ability to learn, whilst being an innate ability, is something which means you will get better faster, not put a cap on your progress. So people who are naturally quicker learners will get better quicker, but over time they will get caught up by the slower learners.
The skills required to beat another human being at a fighting game are not such that you cannot acquire them by spending much more time than everyone else working on your execution.
There’s no accident that most of the greatest skill based performers in the world have spent an inordinately long time practicing the execution of the skills they utilise. I am sure if you did a survey of the top 100 players in the world at SF4 you would see they all play a similar length of time over a monthly or yearly period. Same goes for Tennis players, musical virtuosos, painters and many other skill based disciplines. And as Seth pointed out, when SF4 came out, Daigo’s card showed him playing 8 hours a day for 6 days a week. Every week. For 3 months. He was always going to be ahead of the curve through time spent. Now in Japan most people have nearly caught him up and they trade wins and losses regularly. The same will play out between West and East coast arcade players and console players. Look at Jeb who is improving his placings month on month at high level competition.
I know it is nice to think that being good at Street Fighter is a god given gift and you simply just ‘get it’, but that is really overestimating what it takes to be good at the game. And I might even postulate that people who think such are slyly kidding themselves into thinking they are doing something that anyone else on the street could do given 6 months playing 5 hours every day.
All you need is hard work, experience, practice and patience. Like someone said before talent is a myth…
I remember picking up tekken 3 back in the day and was terrible at it until i found out about tekkenzaibatsu.com and started learning all the intricacies of mixups, wakeup game, combos, juggles etc. Started playing it heaps and played it more at the arcade and got a lot of match experience.
Same thing applies to street fighter. You have so many great resources here on shoryuken and other sites such as eventhubs and streetfighter4.us it all becomes about dedicating the hours to the game. Reading strats, training in practice mode and fight match experience. Also you will improve much quicker if you play at the arcades than online. I generally find arcade players to be much better than online players not to mention there is a more diverse ranges of characters at the arcade. Entering tournaments is another great way to gain that valuable experience as you will get to play against some of the best SF4 players.
Really it all comes down to how much dedication you put into the game.
Usually it is just practice and dedication. You must sacrifice getting laid with hot chicks with big chests, going out and eating Jack in the Box, and getting down to the latest rap music.
The only genetics that could have anything to do with SF is reaction time and intelligence, both of which can be improved upon and is not set in stone.
The reason Daigo and the rest of the japanese players are so good is not because they were just born that way. The reason JWong is good at most fighters is not because he was born this way. They’ve put more hours into the arcade than you’ve probably put into ANYTHING.
And I doubt either of these people would disagree with me.
I think some people have a better mentality toward it than others. I’m good at Alpha 2, Cvs2, ST, but suck at SF4, A3, etc. Same way some people are really good in some subjects in school, but bad in others.