At this rate, this will just become a flame war. I’m just gonna stop ranting and avoid mentioning fanservice altogether since from here it’s only going to get ugly.
“Oh no, Sakura! Noooo, Akuma will kill you! Watch out!” isn’t something I wouldn’t have thought if I didn’t want Sakura to join the fight, now, is it?
…although admittingly, now that I think about it, on a separate issue entirely that has nothing to do with the appropriateness of fanservice at various times, it did seem kind of awkward that Sakura would jump into the middle of a heated battle like that (was she not paying any attention to all that talk about murder? I’d stay away from a person accused of being a killer in that circumstance, even if I was confident in my fighting skills. Or at least, if I jumped in and was confident of my fighting skills, it’d be to help out, not to like, be a fan groupie or whatever you call it. …also, it was wierd that she said to Ryu, “You’re great!” when Akuma was kicking Ryu’s ass. What’s Akuma then? Chopped liver?)
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Now, wouldn’t a less baseless accusation have been, “You didnt want Akuma to hit any girl with a short skirt in a way that would expose the gym shorts”? Accusing me of not wanting “Akuma to hit any girl with a short skirt” by itself is just silly, so I’m going to assume you meant to add the “a way that would expose the gym shorts” but forgot to include it due to your pent-up rage while you were writing that post. In which case, that’s pretty much the exact same accusation as what you said in item D, so I’ll address it when I get to there.
**
Here we have a disagreement on the notion of physics. So I really don’t have much to say regarding this since I’m not as passionate about my beliefs in how physics work out as I am regarding when (or if) fanservice is out of place. And even that, I’m not that passionate about, but eh, if someone lays down the guantlet, it’s hard for me to back away, so I’ll address this briefly.
The speedlines are almost a straight horizontal line. It’s slightly vertical, but at a 10 degree angle. I’ll stick to my thoughts that physically, the skirt shouldn’t have flown up like that. Actually, upon further review of the panel in question, I can’t help but feel that something else is not right with the picture. Maybe it’s the foreshortening or something in proportion to the speedline, since Sakura is leaning forward (but still not enough for me to believe that the skirt would look like that) but the speed line seems like it’s being viewed at a 180 degree profile angle.
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Often times, the artist purposefully puts the camera in a way that any fanservicey look would be seen. This, I have no problem with for the most part (actually, ironically, I think the artist despite the camera angle went out of his way to make that Juli shot look as NOT fanservicey as possible…). However, I’ll still contend that in this particular case, unless the artist showed the angle practically from the freaking GROUND looking straight up at a 90 degree angle, Sakura’s skirt wouldn’t look like that. Okay, to be more honest, a 75 or so degree angle from the ground might have sufficed. But looking at how the tree is perfectly perpendicular to the ground, this was a 180 degree profile angle. Far from any angle that would look like that.
…in retrospect, I think I’ll stop talking about anything to do with the physics of a skirt from here on. I mean, think about it. I’m freaking talking about the physics and camera angle of what makes a skirt fly up in a way that lets you view the shorts underneath. That’s just something I really should cut off as soon as possible, so any further inquiries or arguments about whether or not the skirt should have looked like that will have to be ignored and you’ll just have to go with the assumption that it didn’t look right to me, even if it did to you (alternatively, the entire argument stops right here, since two people arguing on different assumptions is pointless).
**
Finally, we’ve come to something that makes a little more sense (and also has a little more to do with my issue at hand, rather than something like skirt physics).
Anyways, fanservice in general I don’t mind. It’s when it seems blatant to me that the artist purposefully went out of his or her own way in the middle of a heated battle that it just breaks up the flow of things. Stuff like “that camera angle which was obviously chosen for the sake of fanservice so obviously is not the best camera angle that the artist could have taken to showcase the pain of that move” or “why is the only thing I can see on this panel this girl’s ass when the villain is in the middle of giving a big speech to her? Shouldn’t I be seeing the villain in question that’s giving the speech, instead?” or, in this case, “why is a skirt so high up when the speedlines are nearly horizontal?”. Normally, stuff like that is okay with me, but in something like the middle of a very very long dramatic fight (so the flow of the fight has already been long established, but since it’s the middle of the fight, things have also just begun to really start moving. This is when the flow of something is most vulnerable to disruptions), it’s made even worse. I’m here to see a big battle between two of the most sexually-dead… erm, I mean, main characters of the storyline in the great finale to a story arc that’s been in the making for 6 issues, not looking to “appreciate the female form” (I can think of better ways to say it but that’s kind of uncouth for this forum) at this particular point in time, so why did the artist so obviously go far far out of his way to showcase that, especially at a rather climactic moment in the fight? That makes no sense, and it reminds me that this comic is a fictional story made by a writer who’s prone to inserting fanservice even at the cost of physics sense at a time when I’d really rather be immersed into the fight and suspending my belief. Yes, I do know that the comic is a fictional story. Yes, I do know that it’s written by a human being who has and knows his readers have hormones just like everyone does. Yes, I do know that writers and artists are prone to going out of their way to inserting extra fanservice (especially after seeing interviews like the one with the SFA anime producer that those excessive camera shots of Chun’s ass were on purpose). And all of this is fine with me. I just really would prefer that I’m not reminded of it with the freaking SLEDGEHAMMER OF OBVIOUS BLATANCY while I’m in the middle of reading a huge storyline event! Blatant things disrupt flows. I think fanservice when the flow of something else is going on should either be more subtle, make sense in either the physical or psychological context of the situation (in which case, it’s technically not fanservice so much as a coincidence. Fanservice by definition is going out of your way to provide a service for the fans), or if that’s not possible, not be there. In this case, I feel the fanservice in question was neither subtle nor made sense.
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This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. Fanservice in a story is very different from fanservice during gameplay. It’s a game. It’s a game where storyline isn’t really what you’re thinking about during a match, what with you too busy PLAYING the GAME after all. It’s a game where your suspension of belief flew out the window long ago anyways when you’ve had to plunk your 100th quarter in to try to beat Shin Bison because you didn’t figure out his pattern yet. A very serious and supposed-to-be-climactic fight? Yes. But hard to take something serious when you’ve continued for the 5th time. …hard to pay attention to the fanservice either when Bison’s ***ing you in 10 seconds anyways, come to think of it.
My take on the fan-service:
I thought that, while the shot was painfully obivous fan-service to anyone with eyes, it wasn’t inappropriate.
Consider this: pick Sakura in any game she’s in and hit a kick button, any kick button. Congratulations! You’ve seen Sakura’s bloomers!
At first, you don’t even notice because you’re trying to figure out what you’re doing. After a while, you begin to notice that her skirt flies up when she kicks (which is unavoidable. And a question of Sakura’s decency. I train in the martial arts and none of the female martial artists I know would even think about trying to kick in a skirt…) After a few more games, you forget that she’s even showing them. Well, you realize that every kick is blantant fan-service, but you don’t care anymore.
Now, back to the issue at hand. Gouki bashes Sakura in the back of the head, sending her flying forward. Considering Gouki’s storywise-cannon tier placement, it’s not unbelievable to have him completely upend Sakura, making her literally fly forwards. Or at least fly in a manner where she’s somewhat diagonal. Thus, the panty shot is not unbelievable and gratuitious.
You just have to accept panty shots as part of Sakura’s character…
I haven’t been reading any of the Posts lately since I’ve been busy, but I must say I really liked seeing Sakura’s Panties!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry, guys! It’s Friday and I couldn’t resist!
Fan Service doesn’t bother me but it bothers some, and if you think seeing Sakura’s Panties is bad you should try reading Witchblade… in one of the early issues the camera zeroed in on her chest after she made an arrest and the caption read,
“Now this is quite a bust.”
In the end, Fan Service exists in SF and Sakura’s whole popularity is based on Fan Service especially in Japan which is why Capcom will never age her and keep her in unofficial crossover games so she can stay frozen at 16 forever.
You should also check out Masahiko Nakahira’s Sakura Manga. I’d count all the times I can see her panties there but it would take too long.
i think anyone with half a brain would know that the scene was specfically made for fan service. speaking of cammys fan service in games i was wonder if we would see cammy do any of her famous poses and moves like that ponany chocker.
Read the thread before you reply.
Sakuras dumb and we didnt like the way she was used in the comic. A lot of us agreed on that. So it wasnt surprising.
If they went out of their way to avoid showing her shorts in every scene (we see her shorts TWO TIMES in four issues… less than Hondas “underwear”, whos in ONE issue… oh wait, hes a guy, so in his case its ok, right?), we would have only overhead shots during the scenes shes kicking, jumping, falling and the like.
And WHY would showing shorts be an issue? Theyre shorts! We all had gym class with girls before.
If they have to skip showing gym shorts, shouldnt they skip showing Chun-lis outfit completelly? Or Cammys?
See attach. Shes clearly in the air. Going up the first panel, goind down on the second.
a) The slapping scene wouldnt be the same if we saw Sakuras face. That would hide Akumas and give the spotlight to Sakura instead.
b) Continuity-wise, you cant do a reverse shot afterwards. Movies or comics, youre not supposed to. So, the next shot has to be from behind Sakura or a 3/4ers shot.
c) To show that Sakura was airborne after the blow, you have to show her legs.
Considering shes airborne, falling, and supposed to be seen from her back… we get ass. Maybe they couldve done LESS ass. But we would see some of it, for sure.
Sakuras higher than the horizon. If a person is higher than your POV wearing a skirt, youll see something. Sakuras also falling. Her face is pointing the opposite way, while her legs are pointing to us.
Again, they couldve make the shorts less visible. But theyre shorts, which we see not only in real life, but in the games too.
Theres two Sakura shots in the first six issues. Less than one round in the game.
I dont see the difference. In both cases, you only pay attention to the “fan-service” if you want to.
Same here. You guys are pervs.
Sure, anyone with half a brain would stay away from an accused murderer in that circumstance, but this is Sakura we’re talking 'bout. She thinks street fighting is for fun, man! It’s like a hobby for her. It’s no secret that she’s an immature, reckless idiot. She fought Bison in order to protect Ryu during SFA3, so it’s obvious that’s she’s pretty bold. All I’m saying is that it’s not uncharacteristic of her to challenge a guy like Akuma.
Yea, that’s an adequate explanation. Although the murderor issue aside, I still think it’s a bit wierd that she’d tell Ryu, “You’re great!” when Ryu hasn’t landed a single blow on Akuma. Not THAT wierd, since even without landing a blow and while losing a fight, one can give a good impression, but that still brings to mind the question why poor Akuma doesn’t get any love (maybe because he’s declared a psychopathic murderor or something? In which case, Sakura would be just stupid enough to attack him but not stupid enough to know that being Akuma’s #1 fan is impractical :p)
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Again, I have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with fanservice in general with the exception of VERY specific instances. That kick vs Dan is 100% definately going to look like that. As stated by BBCampbell, it’s nearly impossible for that kick to not look like that in a skirt. In fact, if Sakura were slammed “towards the screen” in such a way like E. Honda was, then that’s what it would have looked like, too (except with Sakura instead of E. Honda, of course). My problem here is with the particular shot in issue 6 (and not with any of the others!) in that the way the physics were in my opinion are that it wouldn’t have looked like that, making the fanservice stick out as a shot that the artist actually went out of his way to show it when it logically, in my view, wouldn’t have looked like that. And since no one has yet to say whether or not it’s good or bad for an artist to go out of his way to show fanservice even when it logically wouldn’t have looked like that, I’m going to assume from here on that the true and only argument of this matter is just whether or not it logically really WOULD have looked like that.
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Hrm, I said I’d not continue any arguments about the physics of skirts because it seems a very silly topic to me, but ironically, everyone else seems to want to continue with it so who am I to judge? And this seems to be the true argument, anyways, considering that the only other argument that seems to be brought up is the appropriateness of all fanservice in general, which I’ve constantly said I don’t disagree with, anyways. Why people don’t just agree to disagree and would rather get into a deep thoroughful analysis of whether or not a skirt would fly up in such a way in one panel of a comic is beyond me, but again, everyone seems to be doing it so I guess I might as well give my own. Getting to back to the point, looking at the attach (although I do have the book, myself), you can see the “hit flash” (right next to the “UP” word) where Akuma’s fist impacted Sakura’s head is actually high above her head, and thus really wouldn’t send her that vertically upward (if vertically upward at all). A hit that’s vertically angled upwards won’t give as much vertical power if it impacts at the upper corner of the object, as the majority of the equal and opposite reaction would be used up in tipping the object over rather than sending the object upwards. The speed lines in the first panel actually give a horizontal indication of Sakura’s directional velocity through the air, because there are six speed lines to the right of Sakura’s head in the first panel with two pointing upwards, two pointing downwards at nearly exact opposites from the upwards ones (thus cancelling them out), and two pointing directly horizontally. The only speedline remotely indicating any vertical upwardness is the speedline for Akuma’s fist, but the way Sakura is hit (first actually impacts her on the very top of her head) and the speedlines for her own body coming from the head where she was hit all indicate horizontal flight. In the second panel, again, the speedline to the left of Sakura’s head is a very horizontal speedline with only a very very small amount of vertical up than down, which I think is hardly enough to lift a skirt unless there’s a very strong wind. At the current height difference that Sakura is from the ground compared to Kei (good observation, by the way), taking into account how horizontal the speedline to the left of Sakura’s head in the second panel is (indicating that Sakura’s initial height that she fell from is barely any higher than the current height she’s at in that picture), I still think it’s not enough falling height in and of itself to have the skirt fly up that high.
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Well, my whole comment about faces was when someone else was giving a speech and you couldn’t even see ANYONES’ upper body because of where the camera was (had the camera been panned out more, so you could actually see the people talking, it’d be okay) and really has nothing to do with my particular feelings about this panel. I don’t have any issues whatsoever with the camera’s location in this instance, and am in agreement that the camera is located where it should/could be. (…although on a side note you can’t see Akuma’s face in the second panel of that attachment or Akuma in that second panel at all, anyways, not that it matters). In fact, in this case, since the camera is at a horizontal plane and not from the ground-to-up location, the only way they could have made the camera less out of the way to show fanservice would have been to have it be from an up-to-down view, which would have been just plain silly. So again, my issue is that with the current location of the camera as is, the shot shouldn’t logically have looked like that. My issue is NOT with the location of the camera itself.
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Less ass actually would have been fine, actually. As I’ve stated before, fanservice in the middle of an ongoing flow is okay if it’s subtle. Well, I guess it was subtle enough for Golden Dragon and Lost Phrack, but different people can notice different amounts of things (and not because people are pervs. More on that at the bottom of this post).
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I still think the back of the skirt is at an overly sharper angle than the angle that Sakura’s face is leaning fowards, although what made it stick out to me when I first was reading through the issue wasn’t the comparison of the head leaning forward angle to the skirt flying upward angle so much as the legs leaning backwards angle compared to the skirt’s (compare Sakura’s upper leg length to Kei’s. Her legs aren’t leaning back much at all, and it’s the way the lower body leans that would really affect the skirt, not the upper, since the skirt is at the lower body, after all). Unless there was a very strong vertical upheaval (which again, I don’t think there was, given the horizontalness of the speedlines and the lack of any vertical-uplift of the skirt’s front side), the skirt’s angle shouldn’t have been that much more significant than the leg’s angle. There is the forward angle’s effect on the skirt, but while Sakura’s leaning forward, I don’t think she’s leaning THAT forward enough (or more specifically, her legs leaning THAT backwards enough) to make the skirt go like that, especially considering that her legs are leaning backward just as much as her face is leaning forwards (…why IS Sakura leaning forwards THAT much, anyways? She approached Akuma from the front, Akuma hit her mostly to the side but also in part from the front, and in that first panel, any relevant force and Sakura’s hit stance as shown by her shirt front going up is showing her leaning backwards, even if the backhand motion of Akuma sent her head leaning forwards. It makes the whole way that Sakura looks in the second panel look awkward in general now that I think about it, and not just the skirt by itself)
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I have to disagree that this applies to all situations. In the most extreme of cases, for example, how would you like it if for an entire fight scene, the camera was zoomed up to the girl’s breasts and you couldn’t see anything else for a whole 5 minutes except maybe a small amount of the background in the back moving really fast (because it’s in the middle of a fight scene)? That’d be just as innappropriate as a camera angle that had the entire camera looking at a rock during the fight scene while you hear all sorts of intense punching, kicking, and screaming from off-camera (actually, even more innappropriate since I can think of some instances where the director might want to have the camera pointed at a rock during the whole time, like if the fight scene is supposed to be so gruesome that it’s meant to be left up to the viewer’s imagination what happened during it. This is typically used in many murder or torture scenes). Or maybe, wouldn’t you be just a miffed annoyed if in the middle of a fight scene, they zoomed on the girlstits and a put a sound effect “zwoooing-oing-oingggg” five minutes into a very climactic fight? This particular case is no where even remotely near as extreme as those examples, but it does go to show that “you only pay attention to the “fan-service” if you want to” does not apply to every situation, and at least for me (since mileage can vary by person and mood), it didn’t apply in this situation, either. After all, if this quote were true, then I wouldn’t have noticed it enough for it to disrupt the flow of the scene for me, as I certainly didn’t want to pay attention to it at that particular point in time.
**
Sakura said Ryu was great because she was only looking at Ryu in the battle, not Akuma. She was watching his movement and not keeping track of hits or even listening to what anyone was sayings. She ran out because she was overly excited about getting Ryu to mentor for her. It’s something impulsive kids are known to do.
I finally got my vaiants A-C:cool:
IMO this has been the best issue so far nice long decent fight not that any of the others weren’t decent, I liked seeing the Ryu as a kid sequence, it helps show more the relationship between Gouken & Ryu.
Now as for Sakura I thought that was alright, the last bit was funny “Please stop caling me master…”
I was also pleased that (Well it seemed to me) the absence of a back-up story lead to the expansion of the main story I think this issue being the most important of the series (The last one I mean) needed to be longer.
Nice job Udon:)
Now to see how Ryu does travelling the globe…
read peoples posts before you reply. you seem to be unable to comprehend peoples posts without twisting them around into your own versions. like your doing to tiamatroars posts in order to make him look like some censorship freak.