Yeah, so Seth’s Super is probably one of the most unexplored, unique, and downright confusing things in the game right now. I actually wrote nearly a page so far about it in the book. I also spent about three hours looking between the Evo monitor at the native resolution and the laptop with said text file, which was running at 1024x768 (on a screen that’s meant to be 1440x900.) Everything is a tad fuzzy now and I am a little worried.
Since I don’t know how much longer I should continue to look at any monitors before my eyes fall out, and I don’t feel like writing another essay. I’ll just throw shit that comes to mind, real condensed and partially designed to get someone that isn’t me to look at it sometime as well.
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The HP version does in fact reach just pixels short of full screen. It doesn’t catch -most- characters falling from jumps at that distance no matter how poorly timed they are, though.
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They added invincibility, and they didn’t. As far as I can tell, all versions - from 1-5f - have invincibility frames. I’m still figuring out how this shit works, but I had the most “fun” with the LP version. Now, for the LP version, frame 6 is where things get fun. First, the attack becomes active. Actually, it became active a frame ago, but due to a widely unknown bit, all of Seth’s Supers have a strange first hit that will not connect in most situations. They took 20 damage off of his Super, but it frequently looks like they took 30 because of that. Anyway, we know this is one of the last fireball traps left from Vanilla. Yet we don’t know shit about it, apparently.
For starters, he doesn’t just absorb a fireball with his Super. He absorbs as many as they can possibly throw at him. Characters like Dee Jay and Seth can’t break the ball. Oni’s two hit fireballs occasionally get absorbed. Sometimes even his EX ones do. Ultras and red fireballs still blow it up though. But Oni’s U1, when done close enough, just counts as one fireball so you get off free every now and then. Getting dragged along despite not being a throw, getting hit by a strike attack with projectile properties. Oh, and those strike projectiles are constantly trying to negate enemy projectiles at the same time. Anyway enough about that. It’s about frames 6-80, baby. Here’s the challenge: hit Seth with something that isn’t an EX projectile / Ultra projectile after the LP Super starts up.
Quick list of my efforts: Zangief - couldn’t grab with U1, Super, SPD, RBG. EX Flat went through him and I got punished. General Shotos Inc: Gouki’s MP DP counter hits him sometimes. Seth can hit him with HP DP sometimes, too. Otherwise, can’t SPD him, cant hit him, Ultra 1 goes through him or I get sucked in before it reaches him. Fat Kids Always Win (Rufus): Was able to consistently stuff it with EX Messiah at a very specific distance. Nothing else though. Viper’s U2, nothing. Seth’s U2, the Super won out. Counter Super! Which just sucks me in. Frame apart? Time collapses, we both get hit for 0 damage counter hits, and teleport through each other. Whack. It seems the only thing this Super doesn’t have is protection against other vacuum attacks, as Tanden Engine says no as long as he can come to play in time. **basically, Seth’s hurt box from 6f-80f turns into what can only be described as “sindustry magic”. **It stuffs Dhalsims Fireball Ultra, but if Dhalsim teleports behind Seth, neither of them can be hurt by anything short of him jumping to the other side again. If you are in front of Seth, and in range, hitting him is close to impossible. His hurt box turned into a little ball high in the sky that can’t be seen or some shit.
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Frames are lame. All frame data is generally off by large amounts with the Super. In addition, you can get much more time to perform set ups after a successful super if you make it hit higher in the air.
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Gimmicks. They are not actually gimmicks, look for a different way to apply them to your game. Here’s a hint: which character gets more than 100 meter with an untechable knockdown through jumping normals?
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EX BOOOOOOOOOOMS. -3 when you’re raping someone in a corner, anywhere from 0 to +2 when you are mid-screen. Could mean things for combos.
edit because Seth forums are dead and I don’t want to continue double posting.
Ultra 1 data (including invincibility properties):
Start up is 1+10. Hits in front of Seth on the 10th frame, travels full screen in roughly 16 frames. 1-12f invincible. After 12f, Seth is fully vulnerable to any and all attacks unless the Ultra connects. Well, except counters.
The Ultra is more or less a unique attack, but it is considered a strike attack when it deals with invincible properties, and will pass through strike invincible moves if the property lasts long enough. It is actually a medium sized hit box moving quickly across the screen, so it can miss opponents moving forward with decent invincibility frames. It also does not hit that high, so everyone can jump over the attack if they aren’t doing something beforehand. It does not act as a strike attack against counters or opponents who are considered airborne yet are still in range. It’ll catch them.
When the opponent is caught in the attack, he will get forcefully pushed to the other side of the screen (relative to Seth’s position.) As soon as the attack connects, Seth’s hurt box is pushed back very fast. How fast? Well, Seth himself has an incredibly difficult time stuffing the Ultra with his EX Booms no matter where he is or how early they’re done. Seth becomes fully invincible for all remaining frames a few frames after it connects - a relative while before the cinematic begins. It is actually fairly difficult to hit Seth out of his U1 with a fireball when Seth reacts with it. Most fireballs simply travel too fast or too slow to catch Seth with even the worst reactions. Sagat’s HP Tiger Shot is basically the only one with some sort of consistency that comes to mind. Guile can with his EX Boom, but he can already block by the time it interrupts the Ultra (only way I found out that Guile can is that I held forward, got pushed, and Seth still got knocked out of it.) The only way to reliably stuff the Ultra is to use an attack with enough invincibility or good timing of a low invincibility attack after the screen freeze. Though it does no chip damage, so you’re free to just block at close range or jump out of the way at long range…
However, there is still a very small window (which is hard to determine) where Seth can be knocked out of his Ultra 1 when it connects successfully. On the 13th frame (immediately after Seth’s invincibility frames wear off) you can stuff the attack despite it connecting. The attack needs to reach far and needs to be disjointed from your hurt box to the point that the Ultra cannot connect until at least the 14th frame (alternatively, have an invincible attack that lasts a certain amount of time and has at least one active frame when it’s invincible.) This is pretty damn hard to do, but I figured out a way to (sorta) easily test it in training mode.
Pick Zangief, set the dummy to Seth with U1, start it up and pause. Set revenge gauge and meter options to refill, then select record. When you unpause, do QCF+PPP and pause again. Put it on playback. You need to do this as fast as possible and it is annoying to set up sometimes. When you do it right, Seth will probably launch an EX Sonic Boom once then proceed to just continue to throw his Ultra 1 out. Pick the restart option, block the (now normal) Sonic Boom, and Seth will Ultra. Once you block it, do an EX GH to punish him, and then do another EX GH as fast as the game engine allows. EX GH is +1 on hit, starts up in 13f, one hit connects on frame 13, another hits on frame 14, goes into recovery on frame 15 and is invincible during 1-13f. You have one frame to do this properly (took me a couple of tries sometimes but mashing the shit out like I was Daigo worked well enough.) If you time it right, the first hit of EX GH will connect, then Seth’s Ultra 1 will interrupt it. Zangief gets pushed to the other side of the screen and takes no damage but is put into hit stun for a bit, while Seth eats a little damage. Will happen regardless of where you do it, and you can probably hit Zangief in this state if in the corner…(this is why I figure the invincibility period is not determined where the opponent or Seth is, but when it connects, and also why Sagat and Guile are the only ones who can somewhat reliably stuff U1 with their fireballs at full screen - they travel extremely fast, just fast enough to hit Seth during this window when you’re trying to react to Shots/Booms.)
It looks kinda weird because Seth’s Ultra 1 is the only strike attack in the game that puts them in this hit state, has invincibility frames on the first active frames and remains active after he gets hit (to my knowledge.) I guess Rufus technically has the effect, but EX Tornado doesn’t have invincibility while U2 has pulls them in and has pursuit properties on hit.
