51

I don’t understand this unblockable. Could you explain this combo (?) a little better please? cl.hp FADC to cr.hp doesn’t combo. Do you mean SB FADC? Also you are talking about hitting with cr.hp twice, not doing the move twice, right? Thanks.

52

oh lol I took it out when putting in the little bracket to signify a way to combo into it…yeah, I meant cst.HP xx HP Boom xx FADC forward. And yeah, cr.HP hitting twice then linking into sweep.

edit: here we go

53

(Corner) HP DP x3 ~ LP Super ~ back dash ~ jump over opponent, j.HK
"Beta" unblockable on Gouki in the corner. Can start with anything that doesn’t change timing too much (basically “not cr.HP” or AA.) So starting off a DK, cst.HP, j.HP, j.LK, j.HK, Tanden, whatever is fine as long as Gouki doesn’t get lifted into the air and the DP puts him in the corner.
Beta because I can’t do it reliably (not sure if Super link timing is lenient, but it must hit at a certain point and the final hit must connect “late.”) Not saying that it isn’t reliable yet because I was just getting fucking sick of sitting through Seth’s Super animation (LET’S TAKE THIS TO THE NEXT LEVEL.)
This unblockable concept can be done off of (anything near corner), Hyakuretsukyaku, Super. But I have not found a remotely reliable way of timing it yet.

Ultra 1 that pushes opponent to corner ~ dash forward ~ plink cr.MK ~ dash forward ~ jump over opponent, j.HK
Might be unblockable against Gouki. I can’t test this because Seth’s Ultra 1 lasts too long for the default recording feature, and I don’t want to pull my hair out with PC timing. But I managed to get the little hit graphics to appear like they do when the unblockable connects…

(Confirmation) Sweep, j.HK unblockable works on Cody in the corner (use Gouki timing, not Ibuki.)

Sweep, j.HK unblockable works on Guy in the corner. Except you use j.LK instead. Seth will not be hit by reversal EX Tatsu (it just goes through him somehow…) Again, use Gouki timing. Since the EX Tatsu goes clean through Seth, you can probably OS him too.

Stuff:

The third Yosokyaku (head stomp) still causes an untechable knockdown on grounded opponents, and the two stomps before it will often catch opponents trying to jump/back dash into a juggle. All three hits can still combo on grounded opponents, even if they’re crouching.This works on everyone as far as I can tell - but you must use a set up before hand and you must do the first head stomp extremely late. Otherwise, the second or third stomp will completely whiff or just won’t combo. Much easier to use against fatass characters though, such as Abel, Gief and Gat. The hit box on all of them reaches a lot farther than it would seem, but it is hard to work with such fast start up time + very low active frames…

If cr.LK, cr.LP, cst.HP works, cr.LK, cst.LK, cst.HP works. But cr.LK, cst.LK, cst.HP works on some characters that cr.LK, cr.LP, cst.HP doesn’t. I should probably look into this later because it always does more damage/stun and you can choose between DP or Legs. (example: Tanden, cr.LK, cr.LP, cst.HP doesn’t work on Sagat. Tanden, cr.LK, cst.LK, cst.HP does.)

Sometimes you have one of Seth’s frequently used light attacks whiff when it would normally hit. Try to figure what string that resulted from and where the opponent was: a good portion of the time, that attack actually needs to be linked and will hit meaty. This allows you to combo cr.MK on some crouching characters without a counter hit, and sweep combos if they’re standing.

cst.LP appears to have the least push back of all of Seth’s attacks on hit. Oh and it doesn’t hit anybody crouching reliably. Yes, nobody apparently. Sagat and Boxer can be hit with it, but it will only hit when they’re crouching as they do those animation bobs I was talking about.

cst.HK and cr.HP both do damage and stun on both hits. The damage part is not too interesting, but the stun could potentially be used to do post-KO stuns (Hyakuretsukyaku, in comparison, doesn’t apply stun until the move is finished.)

I can not find a single use for cst.MK. Absolutely nothing, short of hoping the opponent blocks cr.LP, cst.MK which is a decent SPD tick (but you have cr.LK anyway???) +3 on hit (aka leads to nothing), 0 on block (might as well end with something where you’re + at this range), less damage than cst.MP, 7f start up. No apparent applications for the additional start up and recovery frames with special cancels. Haven’t been able to use the frames for any timing set ups either…

Seth’s cr.HK knockdown, while untechable, appears to be unusually short. Also it only does 100 stun and 90 damage which is incredibly meh worthy with it’s start up, hit box, recovery, and frames on block. His forward throw puts his opponent on the ground for such a small time that Seth cannot actually complete a jump before his opponent rises…

Hyakuretsu uses different scaling rules from most moves in the game. The first hit is scaled normally. The rapid fire hits are then scaled on that - but not with the typical scaling. 100% when you’re under three hits, then 25% less for each two moves in the combo before hand. But it won’t drop below 25%. The last hit will use the same scaling as the first hit did, and then the scaling rules go back to normal.
So, for example: FA3, Hyakuretsukyaku will do 80% (1H) 100% (15H) 80% (1H) damage and 80% stun. If it followed the normal rules, it would do 80% in it’s entirety, or 80>70>60.

Speaking of scaling, you probably know this, but just in case: moves where you have to do additional inputs do count towards scaling. All DPs will do 100%, 100%, 80% when done in full if nothing else is done before them (or whatever scaling point you’re at in the combo.)

I think I mentioned it before, but Seth’s non-EX DPs do less damage after the first active frames…not sure if it’s the first frame or the first few active frames, though. I think cst.HP has the same property.

Remember the Blanka SPD unblockable (SPD ~ wall jump, j.LK)?
Try this: SPD ~ hold back until Seth moves ~ wall jump, button.
A lot of practical set ups with this against everyone. Experiment with it.

For a bit less damage and probably less stun, you can carry any opponent into the corner with your 3 bar EX DP combos mid-screen off of any big punish or Tanden Engine (a little farther, in fact.) Not “oh he goes into the corner” but “hyakuretsukyaku, stomps, DK reset.” The “trick” is pretty simple: Start with cr.HP, wait for Seth to recover, and link the EX DP. Then do your typical EX engine follow up. The timing is a little different for some characters (sometimes you have to cancel into EX DP at the end of the cancel window instead), but I believe it does work on everyone (NOT if the character is already cornered.) You can actually link non-EX DPs from cr.HP after the cancel window, but this is very character specific. Worth looking into though, because I’ve done cr.HP (x2), HP DP (x2), Stomp (x2), DK on characters that weren’t El Fuerte. Plus you can do that LP DP x3, EX Engine combo on some characters…not sure which ones or what the values are though.

Magneto Loop does not work on … himself, reliably anymore. I don’t know why, the j.HK just whiffs sometimes. You can use dive kick, but I don’t think it’s safe.
Also, while you probably know about the near ToD shit available with cst.HK, cst.HP. Any connected Tanden near the corner can do 403/720 for one bar (cst.HK, cst.HP xx EX Legs, Stomp x3, DK.) A follow up SPD, cross up j.HK, or fst.HP will stun him. Which results in a guaranteed kill for no additional meter: nj.HK, cr.HP x2, HK Legs, Stomp x3, DK. You can do this mid-screen too, but it’ll cost two bars for an FADC instead (Tanden, cst.HK, cst.HP xx Boom xx FADC forward, cr.HP x2, LP DP x1, Stomp x3, DK for 419/720.)

Sagat falls faster than most other characters for whatever reason. j.HK cross up can be blocked both ways quite often when he is in the corner, and many cross ups mid-screen suffer from this as well. j.LK will properly cross him up, but it must be done late. Also for some annoying reason, it does not seem to be possible to OS his TU with set ups that make the TU connect on the 6th (possibly even the 7th) frame. Yeah, I took the fact that he gets up slower into account when trying this (and HOLY SHIT was it hard to come up with a way to time those without moving.) He also seems to share a Guile oddity with his wake up animation where he seemingly always faces away from the corner when he gets up, then turns around to block when the opponent isn’t in that direction (not sure if it applies to the his actual hurt box.) Doesn’t appear to affect his ability to block…well it might just make j.HK a hell of a lot easier to block for all I can tell.

On that note, Yang falls slower than most other characters. Which explains why I can do EX Kicks, MP Lunge on him with Yun and almost nobody else. Might be a character specific combo on him.

54

Tanden > c.LK, cs.LK , cs.HP DOES NOT work on:
Blanka
Chun-Li
Dudley
Guile
Guy
Juri
M. Bison / Dictator
Rose
Rufus
T. Hawk
Zangief

c.LK, cs.LK, cs.HP DOES NOT work on:
Abel
Balrog / Boxer (works if Balrog is walking forward lol)
Blanka (cs.LK whiffs on crouching Blanka)
Chun-Li
Cody (standing, works on crouching only)
Dudley
Gen (doesn’t work on crouching in Mantis stance only)
Guy (standing, works on crouching only)
Hakan
Juri (standing, works on crouching only)
M. Bison / Dictator (standing, works on crouching only)
Rose
Rufus
Sagat (crouching, works on standing only)
T. Hawk
Vega / Claw (standing, works on standing if Vega is walking forward lol)
Yang (crouching, works on standing only)
Yun (crouching, works on standing only)
Zangief

The only use I have for that is for an antiback dash OS against characters with bad backdashes like Ryu. Even then, you can still get s.MK OSed instead if you weren’t close enough. The reason it is good is because it hits them while they are still airborne so they have the guess low or SPD. Regardless, you are better off OSing c.HK or LK legs. But yeah, you are right that there isn’t a a real use for the move aside from tick SPD and frame traps…

This is the same with Ryu’s HP SRK and the like.

As far as I know, that combo works on Honda, Seth, Abel, T. Hawk, Dan, Ibuki, Yun, and Yang. It might work on other characters and it might not work on these characters if you don’t do a tanden before the c.HP

55

cl.mk FADC allows you to do cl.mp cl.hp after FADC midscreen.

56

cst.MP xx Boom FADC does too though

57

Ok I’m feeling retarded here. What does the cs.lk part mean in notation?

58

cs.lk = Close standing lk. I say cl. because the only close normals characters have in SF4 are standing anyway as far as I know. The cl differentiates between crouching and close.

59

Yeah, so Seth’s Super is probably one of the most unexplored, unique, and downright confusing things in the game right now. I actually wrote nearly a page so far about it in the book. I also spent about three hours looking between the Evo monitor at the native resolution and the laptop with said text file, which was running at 1024x768 (on a screen that’s meant to be 1440x900.) Everything is a tad fuzzy now and I am a little worried.

Since I don’t know how much longer I should continue to look at any monitors before my eyes fall out, and I don’t feel like writing another essay. I’ll just throw shit that comes to mind, real condensed and partially designed to get someone that isn’t me to look at it sometime as well.

  1. The HP version does in fact reach just pixels short of full screen. It doesn’t catch -most- characters falling from jumps at that distance no matter how poorly timed they are, though.

  2. They added invincibility, and they didn’t. As far as I can tell, all versions - from 1-5f - have invincibility frames. I’m still figuring out how this shit works, but I had the most “fun” with the LP version. Now, for the LP version, frame 6 is where things get fun. First, the attack becomes active. Actually, it became active a frame ago, but due to a widely unknown bit, all of Seth’s Supers have a strange first hit that will not connect in most situations. They took 20 damage off of his Super, but it frequently looks like they took 30 because of that. Anyway, we know this is one of the last fireball traps left from Vanilla. Yet we don’t know shit about it, apparently.
    For starters, he doesn’t just absorb a fireball with his Super. He absorbs as many as they can possibly throw at him. Characters like Dee Jay and Seth can’t break the ball. Oni’s two hit fireballs occasionally get absorbed. Sometimes even his EX ones do. Ultras and red fireballs still blow it up though. But Oni’s U1, when done close enough, just counts as one fireball so you get off free every now and then. Getting dragged along despite not being a throw, getting hit by a strike attack with projectile properties. Oh, and those strike projectiles are constantly trying to negate enemy projectiles at the same time. Anyway enough about that. It’s about frames 6-80, baby. Here’s the challenge: hit Seth with something that isn’t an EX projectile / Ultra projectile after the LP Super starts up.
    Quick list of my efforts: Zangief - couldn’t grab with U1, Super, SPD, RBG. EX Flat went through him and I got punished. General Shotos Inc: Gouki’s MP DP counter hits him sometimes. Seth can hit him with HP DP sometimes, too. Otherwise, can’t SPD him, cant hit him, Ultra 1 goes through him or I get sucked in before it reaches him. Fat Kids Always Win (Rufus): Was able to consistently stuff it with EX Messiah at a very specific distance. Nothing else though. Viper’s U2, nothing. Seth’s U2, the Super won out. Counter Super! Which just sucks me in. Frame apart? Time collapses, we both get hit for 0 damage counter hits, and teleport through each other. Whack. It seems the only thing this Super doesn’t have is protection against other vacuum attacks, as Tanden Engine says no as long as he can come to play in time. **basically, Seth’s hurt box from 6f-80f turns into what can only be described as “sindustry magic”. **It stuffs Dhalsims Fireball Ultra, but if Dhalsim teleports behind Seth, neither of them can be hurt by anything short of him jumping to the other side again. If you are in front of Seth, and in range, hitting him is close to impossible. His hurt box turned into a little ball high in the sky that can’t be seen or some shit.

  3. Frames are lame. All frame data is generally off by large amounts with the Super. In addition, you can get much more time to perform set ups after a successful super if you make it hit higher in the air.

  4. Gimmicks. They are not actually gimmicks, look for a different way to apply them to your game. Here’s a hint: which character gets more than 100 meter with an untechable knockdown through jumping normals?

  5. EX BOOOOOOOOOOMS. -3 when you’re raping someone in a corner, anywhere from 0 to +2 when you are mid-screen. Could mean things for combos.

edit because Seth forums are dead and I don’t want to continue double posting.

Ultra 1 data (including invincibility properties):

Start up is 1+10. Hits in front of Seth on the 10th frame, travels full screen in roughly 16 frames. 1-12f invincible. After 12f, Seth is fully vulnerable to any and all attacks unless the Ultra connects. Well, except counters.

The Ultra is more or less a unique attack, but it is considered a strike attack when it deals with invincible properties, and will pass through strike invincible moves if the property lasts long enough. It is actually a medium sized hit box moving quickly across the screen, so it can miss opponents moving forward with decent invincibility frames. It also does not hit that high, so everyone can jump over the attack if they aren’t doing something beforehand. It does not act as a strike attack against counters or opponents who are considered airborne yet are still in range. It’ll catch them.

When the opponent is caught in the attack, he will get forcefully pushed to the other side of the screen (relative to Seth’s position.) As soon as the attack connects, Seth’s hurt box is pushed back very fast. How fast? Well, Seth himself has an incredibly difficult time stuffing the Ultra with his EX Booms no matter where he is or how early they’re done. Seth becomes fully invincible for all remaining frames a few frames after it connects - a relative while before the cinematic begins. It is actually fairly difficult to hit Seth out of his U1 with a fireball when Seth reacts with it. Most fireballs simply travel too fast or too slow to catch Seth with even the worst reactions. Sagat’s HP Tiger Shot is basically the only one with some sort of consistency that comes to mind. Guile can with his EX Boom, but he can already block by the time it interrupts the Ultra (only way I found out that Guile can is that I held forward, got pushed, and Seth still got knocked out of it.) The only way to reliably stuff the Ultra is to use an attack with enough invincibility or good timing of a low invincibility attack after the screen freeze. Though it does no chip damage, so you’re free to just block at close range or jump out of the way at long range…

However, there is still a very small window (which is hard to determine) where Seth can be knocked out of his Ultra 1 when it connects successfully. On the 13th frame (immediately after Seth’s invincibility frames wear off) you can stuff the attack despite it connecting. The attack needs to reach far and needs to be disjointed from your hurt box to the point that the Ultra cannot connect until at least the 14th frame (alternatively, have an invincible attack that lasts a certain amount of time and has at least one active frame when it’s invincible.) This is pretty damn hard to do, but I figured out a way to (sorta) easily test it in training mode.

Pick Zangief, set the dummy to Seth with U1, start it up and pause. Set revenge gauge and meter options to refill, then select record. When you unpause, do QCF+PPP and pause again. Put it on playback. You need to do this as fast as possible and it is annoying to set up sometimes. When you do it right, Seth will probably launch an EX Sonic Boom once then proceed to just continue to throw his Ultra 1 out. Pick the restart option, block the (now normal) Sonic Boom, and Seth will Ultra. Once you block it, do an EX GH to punish him, and then do another EX GH as fast as the game engine allows. EX GH is +1 on hit, starts up in 13f, one hit connects on frame 13, another hits on frame 14, goes into recovery on frame 15 and is invincible during 1-13f. You have one frame to do this properly (took me a couple of tries sometimes but mashing the shit out like I was Daigo worked well enough.) If you time it right, the first hit of EX GH will connect, then Seth’s Ultra 1 will interrupt it. Zangief gets pushed to the other side of the screen and takes no damage but is put into hit stun for a bit, while Seth eats a little damage. Will happen regardless of where you do it, and you can probably hit Zangief in this state if in the corner…(this is why I figure the invincibility period is not determined where the opponent or Seth is, but when it connects, and also why Sagat and Guile are the only ones who can somewhat reliably stuff U1 with their fireballs at full screen - they travel extremely fast, just fast enough to hit Seth during this window when you’re trying to react to Shots/Booms.)

It looks kinda weird because Seth’s Ultra 1 is the only strike attack in the game that puts them in this hit state, has invincibility frames on the first active frames and remains active after he gets hit (to my knowledge.) I guess Rufus technically has the effect, but EX Tornado doesn’t have invincibility while U2 has pulls them in and has pursuit properties on hit.

60

lvl 2 focus > hard punch
the hard punch is unblockable for anyone in the cast

61

Are you talking about a combo?

62

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this, but I’ve been a long-time lurker and read most pages in Seth resource threads, and if I’ve come across the answer to what I’m looking for already, I didn’t notice it or something.

At any rate, I haven’t been properly able to find a real ‘compilation’ of setups. I.e. various setups for quick stand/non-quick stand after DP and legs. The only thing I’ve really seen when it comes to DP is meaty divekick or when they don’t get up quick, that, uhh, double divekick into SPD thing (but I haven’t seen any notes on how to do it to get a meaty SPD with proper timing.)

Also, after legs, from what I gather most people do PPP teleport, which is what I’ve developed a habit of doing, but still, is this the strongest alternative after legs to keep up offense/pressure and/or relatively safe? I mean, AFAIK, even if you do the TP at correct timing, you’re still like 0 or +1 (I think it was one of the two) and so you’ll still have trouble with 3f normals or maybe even throws? How do you guys follow it up properly?

Sorry if these questions are troublesome to answer, but I’ve been playing Seth for a few months now, and I guess these are the questions I’ve amassed at this point.

(Also, in the combo thread, I didn’t see combos such as cl.mp, cl.hp xx LP SB xx FADC, cl.hk, cr.mp xx MK Hyakuretsu listed with values - is it because it’s character specific, even though it’s for quite a bit of the cast? I mean, I’m not sure if that’s the best bang for the buck for 2 meters, but I didn’t find a compiled list of this information in that thread, at least - have I been looking the wrong place?)

EDIT: I guess what I’m asking is if there is a clear list of setups after legs/DP/SPD, instead of spread around the occasional post in the 33-page threads. I.e. anything from what that Ramza guy posted to the SB FADC j.d.mk, j.f.hk setup after SPD in one place?

63

If you were doing a setup for the whiff divekick -> SPD, people would see it coming.

After DP, I almost always do crossup j.hk/meaty divekick mixups. Mix in j.lk/empty jump -> SPD, and the occasional empty jump cr.lk.

DP FADC, EX SPD, tanden or cr.lp s.lk OS legs if you think they’re going to backdash.

You should probably be doing DP for setups midscreen, and the cl.hk -> cr.mp link actually reduces damage if you follow up with stomps.

64

Thanks for the quick response. The DP thing is good advice, thanks, I’ll try to mix it up with those.

Okay, so you don’t try to go for any normals after the TP unless you’re trying to OS a backdash? 'Cause that’s what I’m curious about, since it seems the only option I have to keep pressure up is to force a gamble (not that I’m complaining since it’s Seth, but I’m just wondering if that’s the only good (quote unquote) option?)

Thanks, I won’t do it, then! But that’s kinda what I’m wondering, is there a list of the most meter efficient combos in terms of stun or damage that I’ve missed?

65

You can mix in normals after fw teleport when you have meter to make them scared of DP FADC. You can OS legs or hit confirm into cst.HP. Depends on the match up really. If they have a 3f normal or invincible reversal that’s even remotely decent (ie Seth will get hit if he tries to use a normal) you are required to have meter if you want to use normals though. There are actually a lot of options after Hyakuretsukyaku outside of teleporting but none of them (including teleport) will put the risk:reward solidly in Seth’s favor without meter unless you’re able to follow up with head stomps.

cst.HK, cr.MP is worth doing against about half the cast after a Tanden Engine, just not in FADC combos (Kikuichimonji pointed out why.)

66

Thanks for the reply. I guess I’ll just have to try and condition more with DP FADC to make them scared of it. Is the reason you use DP FADC and not DP OS a spacing thing?

I see. But yes, that’s kind of why I was asking, 'cause I didn’t find values listed for combos including stuff like cl.mp, cl.hp, so I’ve been in the lab myself trying out stuff. Would’ve prob been easier to just look up the combo/scaling system andy just theorycraft it, but meh, I’ll get around to it at some point. : D

Thanks for the help, guys. And Breaker, thanks for all the work you’ve put in this thread. I read all of it even though I was lurking, and find your ‘research’ to be quite useful.

67

If you OS DP you are -3 if you dash in. This is a free punish for everyone in the cast. Back dashing gives up all pressure against most of the cast. Simply doing DP FADC lets you visually confirm stomps and is generally not punishable unless they have 1f attack ready (mind you, people who practice can punish you for trying to do something after this unless you have another two bars - but you still end up in their face without fear of getting punished.) Plus, some characters are actually too far to OS DP…really annoying when that happens.

That being said, you can OS EX DP with three bars if you feel like it. It’s a big gamble for all the meter you will burn, but a successful hit is 400-500 damage and 600 stun…

Seth’s damage/stun is pretty straight forward. If cst.MP, cst.HP works, it’s the best Seth has unless he’s facing himself (in which case he wants cst.HK, cst.HP.) cr.HP, EX Tanden combos are generally useful when you land a normal Tanden Engine - the opponent has to worry about getting stunned in the resulting mix up unless he’s an 1100+ stun character. EX Hyakuretsu is generally not worth using in combos despite the added stun unless you’re fighting Seth or Gouki. Hit confirming into cst.HP is by far his best hit confirm (and it’s pretty crazy damage for a fast hit confirm) but generally requires him to be point blank and does not work against everyone. cr.LK, cst.LK, cr.MP is his best hit confirm that works from a distance and can OS back dashes (although you can’t use cst.LK against Claw…and someone else…forget…) but cr.LK, cr.LP is generally safer since it leads into a chain. Comboing into Super/U1 is generally never worth it unless it’ll end a game or put them into a kill mix up. Might change if I can figure out a way to test unblockables (but for now they last too long lol.) However, that doesn’t mean you should pick U2 or forget about his Super. I’d only recommend U2 against Cammy…otherwise U1 just shuts down way too many options and gives Seth a free, damaging mix up. His Super is probably the best utility Super in the game…one of the few that still functions as a true fireball trap, shuts down zoning, gives him a mix up, punishes many otherwise safe attacks that push the opponent to a safe distance, OSes a lot, does a ton of chip damage, and more stuff I’m still figuring out (practically impossible to reliably stuff it for some reason, lol?) Seth builds meter pretty fast though, and does get a lot of options with meter, so it’s okay to just use meter as it comes regardless. EX DP, EX Tanden, … is generally his most damaging punish - but cr.HP, EX Tanden does far more stun because of scaling.

Also, unless it’s going to kill the opponent - double FADC combos are generally not worth the meter spent outside of punish situations. Hit confirming them kills the scaling.

There are some other hit confirms but these are generally character specific and mid-combo meaty which are annoying to remember and usually don’t outdo cst.HP anyway.

68

Hey, thanks for a detailed reply. I got some stuff to work on now, and you guys helped answer the questions I had (so far!)

Guess I gotta practice a bit now.

69

If anyone has a spare minute, would it be possible to get a short listing of the unblockables seth has? Right now I’m using only 1, and its the one that works vs gouki/dan/cody/…hakan i think(?). The hyakaretsu in the corner, dash once, jump twice and j.rh. I’ve also used the SPD --> wall jump, j.lk vs blanka. Other than that I’m not sure what else he has. I’m super interested in any on ibuki, as I’ve seen a few people mention that.

Thanks in advance of course.

70

cl.hk cl.hp works on Abel doesn’t it?