it’s cool if you are an empiricist , but until you immerse into the game rather than analyzing cold hard facts from afar and acting as if you know more about a game than some people who have played it religiously for a number of years (like me) , i can’t really see how even you could assume that your argument is validated .
sometimes you have to experience things to understand them rather than analyze them like a mathemical equation .
When is this being added?
matchup ratings are absolutely mathematical equations though. do they tell the whole story? of course not, but only because of factors beyond their scope i.e. variance and player differences. but 3s players want to deny that the matchup advantage/disadvantage system even applies to that game. which, if you look at tournament results, is ridiculous. i don’t see how you can deny this.
Good god some of the crap people come up with. I can’t keep reading this train wreck.
maybe my memory is fucked up from old age but I coulda sworn pyrolee uses yun, so he’s at least using the path of least resistance to victory, and any conjecture from him is possibly because he gets blown up by jps?
3s is far from the most balanced game out there, as even parry doesn’t help many of the lower tier’s problems(were SBO 3s a singles tournament the results would be wildly different)
matchup lists are based off of one important thing: that both players are masters of their character
if one player is obviously better than the other, then you can no longer use tiers(except for some cases, but that’s based on the char) and matchup diagrams as a guide
there’s a difference between a dumb top tier and a varied mid tier that can fight them but more often than not require much more thought and execution to do so, and an actual balanced game
I feel dirty for agreeing with ggg
i’m wondering who vegetas_dad is because the posting style sure seems like someone i’d know. i can’t believe i fell for that haha. very funny!
No ones saying it’s a balanced game , it’s just that 3rd strike get’s a bad rep because on the surface all tourneys are yun/chun/ken dominated and thus new players and those looking at 3rd strike from a distant are extremely put off by it . But as i said earlier this definitely does not tell the whole story , the way the game is designed it places far more emphasis on how well you read your opponent in relation to other street fighters where the tiers are more concrete and matches are even more set in stone . Case in point …cammy vs sim in ssf4 . match is 7-3 straight up , but think how the match would go if the Sim had the option to parry Cammys rushdown and link to super ?? . Would completely change the whole mentality of both players , the dynamics of the metagame and how the cammy player approaches the rushdown . So ssf4 and ST have less flexibility within less advantageous matchups . And yes if SBO were a singles tournament the results would be different i agree . A team with yun/chun/ken basically covers each others matchups + all the 3 characters are being used extremely good players …then it becomes a tough task to beat them with a team like alex/q/necro . 100 per cent i agree on that
So… , theres more to being the best player in your country than picking the correct character on the character select screen . And comparing anyone to japan in third strike is not even called for .
Matchup rankings do not account for player intelligence , and third strike places more emphasis on player intellligence/adaptation/thinking than any other street fighters ive played although this element is present within every fighting game . Whereas in ST i feel i can do nothing when i am in a bad matchup and im actually playing well , e.g fei long vs ryu , if the ryu player has good execution , spacing , baiting and zoning it can really start to feel impossible . Whereas in third strike i can just jump in parry the anti air and shift the momentum in my favour with one good read . Theres no freedom like that in ST .
And i already agreed in the above resonse that 3S in no way balanced , a truly balanced fighter can never be created unless each character is in someway a clone of the other …which would be hella boring .
I got nothing against you man , i enjoy a good debate now and then .
sorry, i just really thought you were joking with some of your posts :S
anyway, just because you feel like you can do more doesn’t mean the matchup is any less bad.
let’s take the sides of a fair coin as analogous to two players of equal skill. if for each heads you give me $5 and for each tails you get nothing, your expected value is identical to if for each heads you give me $10 and for each tails i give you $5. the only difference is in the first example you’re never going to walk away a winner, but over the long term you’ll lose $5 for every flip in both cases.
some 8-2s are not better than others. if chun vs. oro seems more winnable than st ryu vs. honda, that’s just an illusion enforced by the fact that you feel like you always could’ve done something in the former case and not in the latter. but the fact that you always could’ve done something doesn’t necessarily make it any less of a bad matchup, long term. it’s all about risk/reward.
Elena hasn’t been mid-tier for years…
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WE should move this to the top 5 balance topic/.
Obviously a game with less flexibility with its options will make match-ups much worse. I haven’t played third strike but I have played a bunch of uther games to prove this statement.
For example.
In ST, Akuma dominated most of the cast. This was due to the fact that he was able to abuse the mechanics the most. Now if they had a mechanic like pushblocking to keep akuma out, the marchps would be much less irratating. In VS, Q-Bee vs Bishamon is skewed in Q-bee’s favor, but since mechanics like push blocking exist, Q-bee can’t rush him down forever and he has a better chance to keep her out.
Why can’t most 3S players simply admit that we like the game despite it not being perfectly balanced?
I know I’d respect your religion a whole lot more, if more of you would admit to its irrationality.
Well, okay - no I wouldn’t.
But I respect 3Sers like you, who admit to such.
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I’m an admitted tier whore. As Tokido (who is as far from a scrub as you can get) himself stated “maybe it’s ok to have an easy character after all.”
But enough of that. All this 3S talk has derailed the thread.
scrubquotes worthy. dont talk about games you dont play :X
A lot of the quotes look like they require one to deeply know the game in question, which lowers the comedic value considering they’re talking about a bunch of games, in my view anyway. For instance, I don’t play or follow MvC3, so for all I know, Phoenix could have 7-3s across the board and have a glitch that halves all damage she gets and truly needs nurfing.
the idea that phoenix needs nerfing isnt why that quote is funny
Subscribing to thread
Yes I know that he also had inescapable traps against most of the cast as well has the air hadou.
Air hadou basically giving him nice ground recovery and hitting invincible moves. However, I do think that allowing you to pushblock some of his moves like his tatsu would tone him down. His crazy recovery time, his completely invincible moves, and his inescapable traps still makes him the best by far My original point ( which was supposed to be my original point, a bad one however) was giving the cast more flexibility in their options would allow their match ups to be much less brutal and actually winnable.
@Neverending Manga That quote was funny becuase he basically said that he has no experience with the game and all he does is watch other people play to determine his opinion.
talks out of ass
poops a little
More Unitardness. Because apparently, Capcom is the only company capable of making decent fighting games.
Pretty sure Hecatom would like a crack at this one.