Scrubquotes is back!

Adelheid · 2012-07-13T13:00:12.000Z

Guys. Guys, guys, guys. Remember Blade? Blade from my signature? He’s back. In blog form. Now my signature has another trophy.

http://matakku-uzee-na.tumblr.com/

Everything here is glorious, I can’t pinpoint any single thing except for the second line of my signature which is just, SO great.

d3v · 2012-07-13T14:03:02.000Z

Guys. Guys, guys, guys. Remember Blade? Blade from my signature? He’s back. In blog form. Now my signature has another trophy.

http://matakku-uzee-na.tumblr.com/

Everything here is glorious, I can’t pinpoint any single thing except for the second line of my signature which is just, SO great.

[S]Geez, if he just stopped ranting, he might actually have time practice.[/S]

Never mind, read most of his shit. Though there are some points worth thinking about (the stuff on GG and IK), most of it is trash. With his mindset, it makes you wonder why the heck does he even play fighting games in the first place.

ShinGouki00 · 2012-07-16T06:15:01.000Z

my god, that whole blog is one giant scrubquote

it even has all the classics

get a life
it’s just a game
so what you’re good at a videogame that’s one facet of your life

I love how he develops a strat for using IK and then says himself that it’s impractical, like that doesn’t completely contradict his whole point.

Adelheid · 2012-07-16T16:49:33.000Z

For a bit I thought it might be a good idea to stop making fun of him because he seemed to be legitimately crazy, but then I remembered he’s also a misogynist asshole, spoiled child he thinks he deserves everything in the world for merely existing despite being 29 near years old and directionless, so it’s okay again

Great_Dark_Hero · 2012-07-16T16:56:15.000Z

I kind of hope he provides with more insight on how he thinks fighting games should be played; more laughing material for me I suppose.

Sol_Badguy_Z · 2012-07-16T17:53:33.000Z

He really needs to stop caring about what others think of his opinion and just state it. I’ve told him before.

Kusanagi02 · 2012-07-17T04:43:21.000Z

Took from a fighting forum:
[LEFT]“Infinites are for ppl who cant fight fair and want to be flashy. No skill is needed. Same buttons pressed and same moves over and over. i can do those but i dont cause its [/LEFT]
[LEFT]boring.”[/LEFT]

d3v · 2012-07-17T08:51:36.000Z

Took from a fighting forum:
[LEFT]“Infinites are for ppl who cant fight fair and want to be flashy. No skill is needed. Same buttons pressed and same moves over and over. i can do those but i dont cause its [/LEFT]
[LEFT]boring.”[/LEFT]

Link pls.

Hecatom · 2012-07-19T20:43:21.000Z

Yeah when SF4 is your first fighter you become needy of cheap mechanics like Focus Attacks, FADCs or Ultras.
Likewise SFXT which has fairer versions of these cheap mechanics like Pandora, SADC, Tag Cancels seems “Ass” because it requires more effort and skill to play.

To me, the single worst thing in the game is pressure; not just from jabs, it can be from divekicks, target combos, unique attacks like Ogre’s infinite kick etc.
Simply nerfing jabs won’t solve the problem, people will just defer to Rufus or characters with long unique attacks/target combos.

The fairest solution is to have frame disadvantage accumulation on block so as long as your blocking correctly, you are rewarded with the ability to punish, backdash or whatever instead of giving your foe free meter for performing block strings that are pretty safe, while they push you into a corner and run the clock.

oh lord…
everything on this post screams scrub on a way or another, or at least ignorance

in fact there are good laughs on this thread

Official SRK SFxT Balance Discussion Thread

That’s totally broken logic. Most fighters previously did it so everything else must going forward, what kinda stone age thinking is that? You’ve just landed a big combo for like 50%, knocked someone down and you *still *think you should have an advantage?? Do explain.

Shin_Akuma · 2012-07-20T04:39:58.000Z

It’s the other way around, execution is useless without strategy and mind games. The best players have both, but in the overall picture execution is nowhere near as important as strategy. The simple fact of the matter is that you can use strategy to work around a lack of execution skills, but you can’t use execution to cover up crappy decisions.

Execution is doing what you want, when you want.

1 - Strategy and Mindgames NEED Execution in order to work.
2 - Execution isn’t as important as Strategy? GTFO. What good is Strategy if you can’t put it into action?
3 - Decisions require Execution in order to work.

FGs are 50% Mental and 50% Physical Dexterity.
Strategy allows you to form a plan in your head and Execution allows you to carry out that plan.

ukyo_rulz · 2012-07-20T06:27:30.000Z

Not a scrubquote. That’s right on the money. Players who make good decisions will do better in the long run compared to players who have dextrous fingers. It’s why the best strategists are winning Evo and the most dextrous players are stuck making videos. Execution is important too, but to say that it’s anywhere near as important as strategy and mindgames is just wrong.

Execution is doing what you want, when you want.

Knowing what to do when you need to know it is more important than being able to do what you want when you want to.

Strategy allows you to form a plan in your head and Execution allows you to carry out that plan.

If your execution is low you can just pick an easy-execution character and do basic combos FTW. If your strategy is bad all the TOD combos in the world won’t get you very far. There’s not even a need to theory-fight on this one. Viscant is a former Evo champion with low execution skills. There is no such thing as an Evo champion with a bad mental game. Here are some relevant quotes from a couple of other Evo champions:

Daigo Umehara:

Once I learned the basic combo sets, that was enough to win matches with my friends, but not to hold my own at the arcades. It’s not like my opponents were better at inputting commands than I was, either, and sometimes these same opponents would lose spectacularly against other people. That’s when I realized that technical skill isn’t the only thing that can make a difference in fighting games.

Justin Wong:

The competition in New York back in the day was very fierce and I learned from watching them. I was always a combo Chinese kid but then I realized there was more than just having good execution.

xes · 2012-07-20T06:30:16.000Z

Never argue with somebody claiming a scrubquote. Just knod and keep moving.

ukyo_rulz · 2012-07-20T06:34:03.000Z

Just knod and keep moving.

Is that a typo or a deliberate portmanteau of “knowingly nod”? Because if it’s deliberate that’s kinda cool.

d3v · 2012-07-20T06:36:26.000Z

Not a scrubquote. That’s right on the money. Players who make good decisions will do better in the long run compared to players who have dextrous fingers. It’s why the best strategists are winning Evo and the most dextrous players are stuck making videos. Execution is important too, but to say that it’s anywhere near as important as strategy and mindgames is just wrong.

Truth. Look at what Infiltration and Laugh were doing. Everyone else was practicing long combos and damaging shit, but the guys who won EVO, they spent their free time practicing footsies. Heck, I’m pretty sure Infiltration was practicing the same way for AE as well.

Hecatom · 2012-07-20T06:57:43.000Z

Knowing what to do when you need to know it is more important than being able to do what you want when you want to.

and how would you do what you know that you have to do if you dont have the ability to do it every time that you want to do it?

execution is something that goes hand to hand with strategy
you base your strategy on what you can and what you cant do, having good (enough) execution allows you to capitalize damage and oportunities, not to mention that can open other options that can enrich your strategy

Truth. Look at what Infiltration and Laugh were doing. Everyone else was practicing long combos and damaging shit, but the guys who won EVO, they spent their free time practicing footsies. Heck, I’m pretty sure Infiltration was practicing the same way for AE as well.

true, but they also have the execution to pull off the stuff that was needed to capitalize the mistakes of their oponents

ukyo_rulz · 2012-07-20T07:30:40.000Z

and how would you do what you know that you have to do if you dont have the ability to do it every time that you want to do it?

If you can’t do something consistently, then it’s a bad strategy to rely on it. With a good strategy you should never be put in a situation where you have to do something you can’t consistently perform. For a practical example you can look at how Viscant designs his UMVC3 teams specifically so that they can operate at a high level without requiring much execution.

execution is something that goes hand to hand with strategy

No one is saying that execution isn’t important, just that it’s not as important as strategy and a good mental game.

you base your strategy on what you can and what you cant do, having good (enough) execution allows you to capitalize damage and oportunities, not to mention that can open other options that can enrich your strategy

Having better execution gives you more options about what characters you can play and what strategies you can use. If you combine this with a good strategic mind you can leverage having more options because you can pick the best ones and incorporate them into your gameplay. Now imagine you can only have one or the other -> good strategy or high execution. With a good strategic mind combined with low execution, you will still be able to choose the best options from the more limited toolset that low execution gives you. If it’s the other way around your high execution gives you many options as to what you can do, but you aren’t equipped with the mental ability to actually make the best choices and the advantage is lost.

xes · 2012-07-20T07:31:34.000Z

Is that a typo or a deliberate portmanteau of “knowingly nod”? Because if it’s deliberate that’s kinda cool.

I’m gonna pretend the answer is ‘yes absolutely’

Shin_Akuma · 2012-07-20T08:20:31.000Z

Why is it so hard for people to understand such a simple concept?

Not a scrubquote. That’s right on the money. Players who make good decisions will do better in the long run compared to players who have dextrous fingers.

Like I said, strategeis and decisions require execution. You do realize that you actually have to input the moves yourself, right? **Strategies are purely mental. **

Think of a plan > Execute plan
Have blue prints for a building > construct the building
Devise a strategy or tactic in your mind > put that strategy or tactic in motion.
Think of/make a decision > act on it.

With every thought, there is an action that follows. Simple.

It’s the same shit with sports. Take basketball or hockey for example. You develop strategies in order to score points. What good are strategies if you fail to score points?

It’s why the best strategists are winning Evo and the most dextrous players are stuck making videos.

Why is it that people equate execution with just combos? It’s not only combos. Everything about fighting games requires/revolves around execution - yomi, footsies, mixups, spacing, zoning, traps, etc.

Knowing what to do when you need to know it is more important than being able to do what you want when you want to.

And what if you knew how and when to do something? Actually doing it becomes the most important part. When a person has BOTH good strategy AND execution, then execution (doing said move or tactic) becomes the most important part**.**

This is the point that I am trying to stress. Don’t believe me? Here’s proof:

You say execution isn’t as important as strategy? Well, then I say you don’t know what the hell you are talking about.

Execution can determine whether you win or lose:

Examples

[details=Spoiler]JWong vs, Yipes - MvC2 @ EVO2K7
[media=youtube]gVmc5ZepdVs[/media]
Yipes lands a surefire-kill combo with Psylocke but fucks up the super at the end.

Combofiend vs. Marn - MvC3 @ FR14
[media=youtube]qqKlK8-4glw[/media]
Marn dropping combos and having executional errors. Marn would have won too but nope.
*“Combofiend does not drop combos.” - *Noel Brown

Afrolegends vs. Daigo - ST @ EVO2K6
[media=youtube]O3wdoe2qFqo[/media]
Afro drops a surefire-kill combo and Daigo reverses the match for the win.[/details]

ukyo_rulz · 2012-07-20T09:57:25.000Z

EDIT: I would be more than happy to continue this discussion, but not here. Regardless of how anyone feels about the relative importance of strategy vs execution, I think we can all agree that the original quote never belonged in scrubquotes to begin with and certainly the current discussion does not.* Scrubquotes is for people who make up imaginary rules for fighting games and pretend that everyone should abide by those rules, not for disagreements about what important aspect of fighting games is most important.*

Like I said, strategeis and decisions require execution.

Different strategies and different decisions require different degrees of execution. Top level strategies may or may not require top level execution. You can win Evo on a little execution and a lot of strategy, as Viscant has so ably demonstrated. You cannot win Evo on a little strategy and the best execution, as demonstrated by the fact that there is no successful player who goes the other way (ie. wins tournaments by having exellent execution coupled with mediocre strategy).

Why is it that people equate execution with just combos? It’s not only combos. Everything about fighting games requires/revolves around execution - yomi, footsies, mixups, spacing, zoning, traps, etc.

Because aside from combos, there is not much use for having the best execution vs having just OK execution. Any other advantage you can glean depends on the game. You get better movement in Tekken. You get roll-cancels in CVS2. I can’t really think of anything else but there may be a couple of high execution non-combo things I am missing. The point is that people focus on combos because they’re the single greatest advantage that you get from improving your execution. All the other aspects of fighting games require such low levels of execution that it becomes a moot point. No one saw Infiltration focus through Daigo’s fireball for the punish and thought “Man that’s some execution!”.

And what if you knew how and when to do something? Actually doing it becomes the most important part. When a person has BOTH good strategy AND execution, then execution (doing said move or tactic) becomes the most important part.

You have it backwards. Look at some high level matches. When both people have good execution and good strategy, the player with better strategy wins. Justin Wong and Daigo themselves said in my previous quotes that execution doesn’t count for much in the highest levels of play. You need good strategy to take yourself to the next level. Look at Infiltration and Tokido. Both executionally excellent Akumas. There’s nothing one can do that the other cannot, in terms of pure execution. And yet Infiltration did so much better than Tokido, because he had better strategy on his side.

Execution can determine whether you win or lose:

In rare instances, execution can spell the difference between a win and a loss. Overall, however, strategy is what decides the winner. That’s why those matches you mentioned are notable. People remember them precisely because they are rare examples of execution determining the winner of a match. Also, you conveniently forget that for every example of “Player X lands a combo but fucks up and loses” I can simply point out that you need strategy to land that combo to begin with. Without strategy, you’re just a guy fishing for hits. It’s much better to be the guy who would have won but dropped the combo as compared to the guy who can’t get in or keep the opponent out.

TLDR:
If your execution is not top level, pick a top tier strategy that doesn’t require high execution and you’re good to go. If your strategy is bad, go home and be a family man.

d3v · 2012-07-20T09:58:49.000Z

You know, this whole debate on strategy vs execution probably deserves it’s own thread (and maybe even it’s own front page article).