Yea some stuff need adjustment for sure
This is just not true. Not in this game. Yes you can press buttons after you press a button. You don’t have combo strings but you still have special moves you can cancel into. With frame data it’s easy but now I have to try every single move in the training to know if it’s cancelable.
Not to mention things you can do after guard breaks. This is all about frame data, not hitboxes. Some characters get a heavy after a guard break, some get a low heavy, some get something else. With frame data I know exactly what they get, without I have to try everything myself. Same if character whiffs an attack. The recovery frames on those are different than on block or on hit. What do I get from that? No idea, I have to try everything myself.
If that’s their idea, they want to force us to learn frames ourselves then fine. I just don’t get it since community finds out and posts this things hours or days at max after release anyway. So to me it just sounds like they are lazy to put this stuff in. Fine. I’m not realy saying all this because of them. I’m saying it because some of you guys think frame data in this game is useless. It’s far from useless.
Earlier I said Jubei’s dp is a liability, this is what I meant. This vid shows dp+C but to be frank the others aren’t much better (dp+A’s recovery is still long enough for Yashamaru to jump then qcb+A in the air). This is the opposite of a hit confirm where you confirm you got hit and then mash rage explosion to automatically come out during the rising slash. I’d have less of a problem with it if you could rage explode earlier while he’d still reel from it. Haoh suffers from this problem with his dps as well but you need reactions to explode out of the grounded hit, and Haoh’s recovery is better than Jubei’s.
Except most of the rules for these are generalized. Special cancels on block are always later in the recoil frames compared to on hit (which is why hit-confirm OS exists). Same with what can be cancelled on hit (usually only close normals).
Also, for the most part, the universal answer to all this is to just block. Even if someone recoil cancels, unless they’re Genjuro, blocking opens them up for you.
This is a bad take since hitboxes determine so much. For example, Tam Tam’s normals being whiff punishable at max range is a function of hit boxes, not frame data.
In fact, 2 of the supposed top tiers base their play so much around hitboxes. Tam Tam and Charlotte are all about finding the right range to stand and press their good buttons. Heck, a good chuck of Ukyo’s gameplan is simply “put the best hitboxes out there as low to the ground as possible.”
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All normals? Surely not. This is true for all fighting games but there are still recovery frames depending on what he whiffs. Is it mid, heavy, special attack,…All of those have different recovery frames.
I would like to see frames on hit as well because for some reason when I hit a special move with Shiki (QCF 2 I think) I get insta hit back even though I got the hit. Is it unsafe on hit too or what?
Week 1 tier lists yay.
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You’ll probably see that tactic from Kyoshiro a bunch because it’s one of the few strong things the character has going for him.
Couple of ways to work around it. First thing is to know that the version of his dp that goes to the other side of the screen has MASSIVE recovery time. Way more than the lighter versions. So when he does it run up and back throw into a knockdown. Good chance that’s enough screen real estate to get the sword back into play if you run for it.
Another thing is to not get hit by his WFT in the first place. He can only combo into it from a deep jump in or close crouch B. His near c.B range is anemic, and he actually crab walks out of range for it if he downbacks. So keep him out at arm’s length when he’s in rage. And don’t make bad jumps at him when he’s raged because it’s a pretty good AA. Basically treat Kyoshiro’s rage a little like other characters’ rage explosion and mitigate risk.
Last thing you can do is play around the match-ups. The fact that Ukyo and a few others are gimped without their weapons is by design because they’re generally quite good with weapon in hand, so it’s a balance thing. If you know you’re fighting Kyo, consider picking someone with more unarmed options. Ninjas, TamTam, etc.
All that said, yeah I think disarmed weapons should get dragged and forced to stay on screen.
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I was thinking about this last night. Wasn’t that SNK’s big thing for the NEOGEO? The dynamic camera thing was a gimmick, but it’s part of what makes an SNK game and SNK game. Bring it back
We can’t tell unless we see the actual hitboxes now can’t we. Tam Tam’s getting duffed there is more a function of there being a hurtbox present.
And heck, people have been doing these kinds of punishes since back when Ryu was DPing Dhalsim’s arms in SF2 back in 92, way before people playing 2D fighters even considered researching frame data (back then, all we considered was if something was “safe” or “unsafe,” and not the specific frames).
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In the old games, the weapon would flip move to the center of the stage so it was always easy to get to.
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Very different times though. Stuff like that didn’t matter as much then. But now, games like these are now designed and balanced mainly for esports.
Not really. SamSho is balanced by Neo_G Ishizawa, same dude who did MvC2, 3S, A2, and CvS2. His philosophy is based on letting characters “have fun” over any sort of esports influence.
Besides, that really has nothing to do with the game’s overall design and its emphasis on space control (hitboxes) over time control (frames).
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In Samsho, recovery frames on a lot of moves, on block or whiff, can be cancelled into a special move, a deflect, or something else. So recovery frames here can kind of be cheated.
As for Shiki, by all accounts, she sucks right now, so hopefully someone finds something good she can utilize or SNK balances her a bit.
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Getting hit by all of Yoshi’s specials means you’ve probably lost even before 7th Sword is considered. But 7th Sword can also be sidestepped with the right timing.
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I wouldn’t call that move a DP per se. Yes, there’s an uppercut at the end, but it doesn’t really do what a DP is supposed to do and it’s a move that you should really only be using when you KNOW it’s going to hit. Jubei is a very high risk/High Reward type of character like that, but with that said, most of the good Jubei players I’ve seen rarely use that move.
It’s also a liability for someone to Rage Burst unless they’re going to win the round/match as a result of it. So considering that they might face the rest of the fight without meter or access to their WFT, it’s not really worth it to RB Jubei’s move unless there’s a win coming as a result of it.
Jubei’s “DP” has always been a high risk kind of move that you sometimes actually didn’t use in certain matchups coughninjascough.
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I played a lot of Jubei in 5Sp for awhile, and I almost never used it. The A version was always good to use as sort of a command dash though.
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Any special/super that goes airborne while leaving the opponent grounded is kinda terrible at the moment since you will get rage explosion -> issem/ssm in the face for hitting a combo. Hopefully this’ll get fixed relatively soon.
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Experimilk already suggested a fix for it. Simply make the hitbox of rage explosion taller so stuff like Shiki’s rekkas aren’t punished as hard (since it should hit her and push her away, keeping her from eating an Issen).
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Just picked this game up and I’m looking forward to trying it out! I really love older SNK games so I hope its exposure at EVO helps promote this game and we one day see SNK return to their former greatness. The Future Is Now.
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