Arde
1261
So i’m guessing most of Sagat players will move on to Dudley now?
What is he missing in SF4? Please tell me how he’s not S(tupid) tier. You did mention footsies, but footsies don’t even start until he stops pressuring you to death. So really, what has he been missing? Serious question…
m2dave
1263
Perhaps.
Of course, Tiger Cannon will have some usefulness in all match ups, but keep in mind that his footsies (as bad as they are in Street Fighter IV due to his walking speed) will be even worse in Super Street Fighter IV because of the needless nerf on his st.LK. That means that opponents will be in your face more so than they have ever been. You will need a viable option to scare them, to give them something to think about. Certainly, HP Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> f+HK -> U2 will not cut it. The old U1 may, though. Besides, as we keep watching clips of Sagat in SSFIV, I believe that every Sagat player will come to the conclusion that this character will need all the damage that he can get.
Overall, we seem to have a character whose full and mid screen zoning abilities remain intact but whose damage output has been reduced by at least 40% across the board, whose stamina has been downgraded by 100 pts, and whose already bad footsies have been made worse. What do we receive to compensate for these weaknesses? The Angry Scar? These are not good impressions for the new Sagat. Call me, or any other Sagat player for that matter, a “whiner”. I could not careless when all that is being done is early analysis based on observations.
M1G
1264
well im fine with the other nerfs such as Uppercut dmg but TK? wtf?
P.o.t.S
1265
Sagat’s new costume looks like what the first alt was supposed to be all along, much better.
haunts
1266
I think you’re missing the point – instead of toning down certain aspects of his game they just went to town on him and each day he is looking more and more like a joke. Like EL said, toning down aspects of his Ultra and stuff is one thing, but now he is doing shit damage vs guy who has 950 stamina.
I think most Sagat playes understand what needed to be tweaked, but now he is looking mid tier best. It would be one thing if this was the types of changes around the board, but now you see Dudley has the most powerful upper in the game and 1050 stamina? It’s just same shit different day now.
Slow walking speed, easily crossed up, lack of footsies. He has a lot more 5-5 or close to it match ups that people fail to recognize – it was just his massive damage output on his FADC into Ultra that sent him over the top. Tone down the damage as I was saying and nothing beyond that really needed to be changed. One mistimed fireball and he could be rushed down pretty easily without any meter, but now there is no threat of any real retaliation so it’s going to be a lot harder for him.
Not a chance in hell, Dudley doesn’t have fireballs,
I would guess Sagat type players would move to Akuma, Ryu, or learn to play better with Sagat.
I guess Rog is an option seeing how he is a charge character.
No, to be frank, I’m not missing the point. I think SF4 is horribly balanced. People talk all day as if most matches are 5/5 or 6/4, but IMO that’s not the case. The hitboxes, move properties, and ability to land ultra in this game are nowhere near even across the cast. And sadly, it doesn’t look like they’re doing much to change it in Super. Some characters have SEVERE deficiencies in their moves and those don’t seem to be getting addressed at all. Im actually amazed that they’re throwing the nerfs they are at the top tier. But given that they don’t seem to be fixing the mid/low tier characters the way they should be, it’s hard for me to be sad about that.
I just find it funny that people that have been sailing on incredibly overpowered characters are crying AS MUCH as they are. It’s fine and good to say “Well hey, that kinda sucks”. But the sentiments in some of these threads make it sound like the characters have absolutely no chance to compete anymore. And to that, I give a hearty L-O-fucking-L. 
Yeah they hit him pretty hard. :lol: Wow.
I’ve been saying this since forever… all he really needed was a damage nerf and his huge comeback potential would be hindered.
On a side note… His new Alt looks mad sexy as hell 
haunts
1271
Actually some of the mid/low tiers are getting some nice additions to their game, but again, it’s not they didnt have the tools to compete on a basic level to begin with. It was just after a certain point in the match, Sagat and to a certian degree some others, could just wreck all their fun in one easy go-to combo. We all know and recognize this. Now, with this threat gone its not like the mid tiers or upper mids needed a lot to be better, they just needed that elemnt of risk removed from the game to let other aspects of their own gameplan shine.
Not trying to be a dick here, serious question, do you play this game?
Westlo
1272
I like how Ono acts like Sagat wasn’t overpowered in vanilla in todays gamespot interview and than they nerf the shit out of Sagat. I also like how he mentions all this extensive retuning for everybody and yet Boxer and Chun Li are exactly the same. I also like how he mentions new and reworked existing moves and the only two new ones so far is Sagat scar and Guile’s sunglasses.
Ono is awesome.
See man…me and haunts might have disagreed before BUT this is how I know he KNOWS Sagat.
THANK YOU HAUNTS!! Niggas is blinded by DAMAGE. Nvm the fact that Gouki and Ryu can OS’s out the ass and safe jump OS’s are risk free when mastered for them and they have tons of set-ups for them. Nvm that they have really good footsies that are actually somewhat brain dead. Nvm that Sagat gets molested by vortex and although he has good buttons his foot speed really kills him. Nvm that TK frame traps are good but HELLA overated and all you gotta do is hit a button that lowers ur hitbox and you can do this risk free vs Sagat because as soon as he yells tiger you just hit low mk or w/e move it is and if he did Tiger shot absolute guard will take over and your attack wont come out but if he did TK your move WILL come out and then you can duck the knee and rock Sagat.
Never mind all that.
LOOK AT DA DAMAGE!!!
GG SRK
i dont understand how you guys can complain about sagat nerfs when there is obvious clipping on gouken’s hat.
haunts
1275
Look dude, people can bitch all they want but playing strong characters is fun, dosent matter if its Sagat in SF4, Steve in Tekken, Yun or Makoto in 3s, blah blah blah. Even Daigo himself said games are far more interesting when ALL the characters have dope, ridiculous shit they can pull off. Some of these Sagat changes just leave me scratching my head though. It makes me think we are creating a nation of scrubs who will get what they want just as long as they cry hard enough. Before we know it every character in the game is going to be a little pussy where nothing does any damage just to make people happy.
I’m sensationalizing things here, but to bring it back down to earth, I’ll keep playing Sagat becuase I think he will still do well in certian match ups, but truth be told I would like to play a more fluid character with a more unorthodox play style. Really I just want to have fun, and that is subjective of course, but having to take an extra step to get a decent uppercut, having weak footsies among other things jsut dosent sound like fun to me. Sounds like a lot of hassle and frustration!
Anyway, where’s did that Cody thread go again? 
Sharin
1276
I love every time people try to defend ryu/gouki/sagat the name of the other 2 always comes in place. Remember when you talk that there are more than 3 characters in this game (im sure you have forgotten about it when you have advantage against almost anyone else)
Sagat wasnt top tier ONLY because the damage he did with the srk fwd hk ultra, that was one of the most important things but not the only one.
Best zoning in the game, atrocious damaging normals and specials. Who cares about walking speed when you can control all the screen with proyectiles and kara-srk/tk, easily crossed up? Ok so? His footsies werent the best but dont act like they were totally shit when you combine them with the others tools. Some characters cant do anything to scape his tk pressure, if they werent going to improve them, then nerf the damage.
Sagat could take risks and make mistakes and still win because high damage output while having superior stamina, he is going to be top 10 still. You are going to have to work for your wins now.
Overall I feel like Capcom took a wrong turn. First and foremost they shoulda made it so everyone could combo into Ultra and do COOL shit that’s REWARDING. The ultras that just can’t be comboed into for w/e reason shoulda received faster start-up time, more damage, and more invincibility. Ultras that are super easy to combo into should receive damage nerf. You do not nerf TU or TK or any dp for that matter because the damage on dp’s isn’t the issue. You do not nerf moves that are non-issues. You wanna fix something? Make it so Ryu can’t link into sweep. That’s some serious shit that needs to be taken care off. You shouldn’t be getting safe jump OS’s off a sweep that can be hit confirmed into. That’s nonsense. You wanna fix something? Re-work the hitbox on Sagat’s HK so it’s not so massive and ridiculous and so he doesn’t get the double hit from so far away.
Fix the shit that needs to be fixed and the shit that’s just silly and makes no sense. Don’t kill shit just to kill it cuz you are gonna suck the fun outta the game. But damage nerfs across the board? WTF. Do you realize how much longer sets are going to take now? They took steps the make the game more aggro but that damage nerf just makes everyone feel weaker and makes matches take longer. WTF did they do this for? It’s beyond my reasoning.
Make the game fast, fun and everyone can do cool effective shit.
How hard is it to make such a game?
*looks at Guilty Gear series
Oh…well at least someone got it right.
It’s a little late for rants now
That’s the reason I believe SF4 isn’t as balanced as people keep saying it is. Like you said, EmblemLord, everyone should combo into Ultra. Another thing I would like to add is the strings that characters can do. Ryu can do his cr.mk x 2 > sweep with ease while other characters like Guile have a harder time because the timing is all different. In 3rd Strike, each character has qcfx2 super hit confirm, and the same hit string priorities.
Sagat clearly got raped, and I had to use such a word because his damage is so nerfed, it even makes me sad. Sagat is fine, it’s just that everyone needs to be on an even playing field. Obviously if Guile can FADC ultra, he still would suck compared to Sagat, but at least he would have a better chance.
He’s right about guilty gear being awesome though.
