Safe jumps?

[Kuma_Oni]

I’d call it a bait to be honest. If it looks like you’re jumping in and your timing is strong then people will fall for it perhaps… if this works, as I said above, GOOD. People will, hopefully, eventually catch on but I’d consider this more of a bait or even a mix up. We’re just talking about two different things, dude. Sorry if I came off a little harsh.

I’ve actually made a video, it’s on youtube alongside some other tutorials I made 2+ years ago, about how a jLK from Ryu or another shoto on cross up can beat out a LP SRK. This has to do more with the invincibility frames of the LP SRK sucking more than it being a safe jump. In a proper safe jump if the person reversals on you then you have time to block and if they don’t reversal they have to block your attack or you get a free combo. Again, two different things I think we’re talking about here and I’ll be the first to say I’m a stickler for terminology.

18 seconds into the video… Ryu does a Shinku Hadokuen as Guile is jumping in. Look where Guile is during this jump… an SRK would’ve tagged him. Maybe EX from that distance to be safe but it still would’ve worked.

[Mno]

18 seconds into the video… Ryu does a Shinku Hadokuen as Guile is jumping in. Look where Guile is during this jump… an SRK would’ve tagged him. Maybe EX from that distance to be safe but it still would’ve worked.

???

It’s a dummy repeating the same exact action every time. The SRK is blocked clean in the very first second of the video, the next scene(which isn’t cut, it’s a fluid video) showcases that Ryu is indeed tagged/forced to block, then cuts to it even being safe on Super.

For further correction, you can see it even works on Ken’s fierce SRK which travels a great deal horizontally.

It’s the same jump, an SRK is proven blocked as the very first scene, before the super. Followed by Ken’s SRK being blocked in the scene, after the super. I don’t know how you came to that conclusion

[Tko_Foxhound]

That’s one of the safe jumps…the other ones are after a sweep… A lp. dp, and a back throw and a forward throw but with out the whiffing three mps

There IS a video of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9BvjyWq5gU

And if you don’t believe it, test it for yourself and make sure you time it right. And again, by THAT definition, it isn’t a safe jump, but technically it is a safe way to jump during someone’s KD. It looks like a safe jump but it works in a different way (unblockables are also safe jumps, but again, work in a different way). I would explain how and why it works, except I’m not too sure. My guess is that it’s some combination of: spacing, first few frames of reversal DP whiff, the hitbox of the meaty jump-in avoid DP hitbox.

I’m sure you’ve seen some shoto matches where they do crossup jump-in lk. I’m sure you know that this cannot be DP’d. Not a safe jump by your definition, again… but what would you call it?

[Tko_Foxhound]

I completely understand what everyone is saying but if anyone have xbl I’ll show you all add me I’m online all the time tph foxhound

[Kuma_Oni]

I used to care enough about the game to go into the details of looking up all the frame data to prove this video inaccurate as proof of a safe jump. You can see Gouken hitting him with his focus parry move, I don’t know the frame data on this attack but I’m pretty sure it isn’t 3 frames which would normally further prove my point. I had to do this type of thing all the time when SF4 first came out and I posted in the Ryu forums. Constantly having to show the data that proved me correct, make videos to prove me correct. I just don’t care anymore. Do as you will. Let’s call you correct and me wrong. Awesome safe jump, bro. GG

[resres]

I know it’s two different things we’re talking about, but there’s no widely used term for it and since it looks like a safe jump (where they are forced to block), I don’t mind calling it such. Or fake safe jump. Or character specific safe jump. =p

[Tko_Foxhound]

I understand it’s just a demonstration video but I won’t os dp you could go for a bigger punish than just dp

There IS a video of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9BvjyWq5gU

And if you don’t believe it, test it for yourself and make sure you time it right. And again, by THAT definition, it isn’t a safe jump, but technically it is a safe way to jump during someone’s KD. It looks like a safe jump but it works in a different way (unblockables are also safe jumps, but again, work in a different way). I would explain how and why it works, except I’m not too sure. My guess is that it’s some combination of: spacing, first few frames of reversal DP whiff, the hitbox of the meaty jump-in avoid DP hitbox.

I’m sure you’ve seen some shoto matches where they do crossup jump-in lk. I’m sure you know that this cannot be DP’d. Not a safe jump by your definition, again… but what would you call it?

[Mno]

I used to care enough about the game to go into the details of looking up all the frame data to prove this video inaccurate as proof of a safe jump. You can see Gouken hitting him with his focus parry move, I don’t know the frame data on this attack but I’m pretty sure it isn’t 3 frames which would normally further prove my point. I had to do this type of thing all the time when SF4 first came out and I posted in the Ryu forums. Constantly having to show the data that proved me correct, make videos to prove me correct. I just don’t care anymore. Do as you will. Let’s call you correct and me wrong. Awesome safe jump, bro. GG

Yeah that ‘focus parry’ move, those Counter things. You’re right, they aren’t 3-frames. Which further disproves your point, because abilities of that nature come out in 1-frame.

Look, I’m saving you the trouble of digging through your mad laboratory where everything is approximate and you are ‘constantly’ correct, making videos to prove you’re correct(when there are videos available).

Thanks it is awesome, bro. GG angry denial

[Logan_Sama]

You can safe jump a 3 frame reversal which moves the person forward on wake up. If they were to stand and block, the dive kick hits the opponent on the back of the head. If they do a reversal time SRK, their hitbox moves forwards and the active hitbox of the SRK does not touch you during your 2 frames of trip guard on landing. Which makes it safe.

[Logan_Sama]

iPhone editing at its finest! This is for characters with 4 frame reversals or worse which go straight up

[otori]

Game’s been out for maybe 4 years now and some people still don’t know you can safe jump a shoto? Best part is there’s video proof of the Guile setup, Fei, Dic and definetly others can do the same and people are still in denial. These setups work because of the distance. You’re avoiding the first frame of the reversal (it doesn’t reach you) so you’re essentially turning 3 frame reversals into 4 frames reversals, which are safe jumpable.

18 seconds into the video… Ryu does a Shinku Hadokuen as Guile is jumping in. Look where Guile is during this jump… an SRK would’ve tagged him. Maybe EX from that distance to be safe but it still would’ve worked.

Hahaha. Oh lord.

[Kuma_Oni]

Okay fine, you’re right… congratufuckinlations. Can I suck your fuckin dick now?

[otori]

I’m from Brazil =(. Can I pick Gief? In that case I’ll play and abuse lag tactics.

Honestly down, I’m sorry if I offended you. Sometimes I go overboard on the internet, but you have to realize there’s nothing worse than someone who’s wrong talking in a condescending tone.

[Kuma_Oni]

That’s fair, dude. I’m sorry as well. Let’s hug and make out later though… seriously.

[Dannkk]

Yea guys, there’s three different types of safe jumps.

1. vs. 4 frame or more reversals, you just time your jump correctly and you’re safe.
2. vs. 3 frame reversals, you space your attack so that the reversal hits on the 4th frame.
3. vs. 3 frame reversals, you cross them up on the same frame they wake up on.

#3 is a slight bit iffy on it being a safe jump. You can usually make #3 completely safe with a dive kick, but a normal crossup could be dp’d, although it’s like a 1 frame window to input it on, so it’s extremely difficult.

Unblockables aren’t safe jumps. They’re usually done to late. Some might be difficult to counter, but I don’t think any are impossible.

[kyarisan]

Not sure why Yun, Yang, or Fei are even being mentioned here (he wasn’t explicitly mentioned but I saw him in the video), as they have 5 frame reversals, like Sagat.

Just wanna make a lil’ edit here and say that I’m stupid. But regardless people shouldn’t call some of these set-ups “safejumps” in my opinion because you begin to distort what the term refers to. Safejumps are categorically not possible on 3-frame reversals, any trick to avoid active frames are just situational gimmicks that I don’t think I’ve ever seen be relevant in a match ever.

[Raziel_LOK]

I saw some videos, made some tests, and conclude that after the forward throw you can’t safe jump against the shotos, sometimes you can crossup and avoid the dp, but most of the times if you can cross the MP and HP version, the LP will share or stuff you and vice-versa. The rest of the cast may have different ways to works easy. Here are my notes:

Tested this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9BvjyWq5gU

Except if I’m doing it wrong, the shotos can do LP SRK to reversal this SETUP. If possible someone up a video testing with the 4 SRK reversal, LP,MP,HP,EX. and prove that the setup really works.

The forward throw, c.MK, dive setup works easy on:

MAKOTO, DUDLEY, SAKURA, JURI, BISON, VEGA

The following characters can reversal by doing:

-BALROG, EX UPPER (charge back, forward + KK)
-THAWK, U2
-ROSE, SUPER
-EL FUERTE, U2
-RUFUS, U2 (OS will not work and the whole ultra will hit)
-BLANKA, EX
-GUY, EX
-CODY, EX
-DALSHIM, SUPER
-ABEL, SUPER
-HONDA, EX
-IBUKI, EX
-HAKAN, U2

The cast the are not in here it will not work well.

PS: tested with ex shoryuken OS.

[HAV]

Why do people still have false information at this stage in the game’s competitive development? 4-frame reversals are also not safe-jumpable unless you can avoid their first active frame, such as Guile - you can’t safejump guile. Kuma may have been misinformed about these tricky set-ups to safejump shotos, but he was right when he said trip guard forces 4 frames of recovery. It’s 5-frame reversals or slower that you can safejump without any tricks.

Also not sure why Yun, Yang, or Fei are even being mentioned here (he wasn’t explicitly mentioned but I saw him in the video), as they have 5 frame reversals, like Sagat.

LOL @ how you started that post, just to follow with misinformation.

You can safe jump 4F reversals. It takes frame-perfect timing, but you can do it.

When landing after throwing an attack in the air, there are only two landing frames, during which you cannot block. After those two frames, there are two more frames where you can’t move, or attack, but you CAN block.

So… if you safe jump against a 4F reversal, here’s how it goes.

Frame 1- You are in your last air frame, you have your attack out. This is the first frame of your opponent’s standing state, also the first frame of their reversal.

Frame 2- Your first grounded frame. Fully open, cannot block. Your opponent’s 2nd frame in their attack. Not hitting yet.

Frame 3- Your 2nd ground frame, the last during which you cannot block. Your opponent’s 3rd frame in their attack. Not hitting yet. 3F moves hit here, and this is why you can’t safe jump them. You’re still open, and they hit here.

Frame 4- Your 3rd landing frame. You can block here. Your opponent’s 4th frame, and their move hits here. Good thing you timed the safe jump perfectly, because you can block it. Congrats to you.

Just poking in here. That Recent Post listing at the top is bringing me into all sorts of threads…

[Raziel_LOK]

Every video I saw is missing information. I can’t record testing it here now. Or even maybe I’m doing it wrong. You may be able to do a frame perfect safe jump after forward throw, but who really cares? It will not be usable on real. And please if anyone can up a video proofing that it works, please do it. There are a few people here who say that it works but we not have a convincing proof.

[HAV]

Math is math, man…

I just went into training and safe jumped Ken’s MP DP on my first try, without a canned set-up.

[media=youtube]jKa9_nzXB-c[/media]

Took me a couple times to get the SRK out, lol… recording in one hand, trying to SRK on pad on the other…