Safe Jump / Option Select Guide

[Jozhear]

Post EX FBA, dash up, crouch, jump at him

The reason I say crouch is because crouching has a start up of about 3 frames which helps nail the timing of the safe jump, you have 23 total frames of whiff similar to 22 for c. mp regular safe jumps but instead this one crosses up

because it does at such a narrow angle it’ll also avoid any SRK’s, ultra’s, etc.

However, if they teleport you can also down charge for EX FBA punish.

But really the “split second” Hatzlan referred to is like 3 frames out of 60 in a second. so very short

it only really works on seth and rufus though. other characters can all avoid it / crouch under it or etc

[neth]

Mmmh ? I tested it with AE, I’ll retry with 2012… but I don’t understand how this can possibly work : the hurtbox of your jump is way larger than the hitbox, meaning there is no way you can hit a high priority move such as a shoryuken, without it hitting you.

I’ll give it another try. Maybe Neth has discovered an unoticed tweak in njMK hitbox.

EDIT : I tried with 2012, and it worked. I think they changed something about njMK hitbox, cause there is no way it could have such priority with the shitty hitbox it had in SSF4 or in AE.

— Works vs all Ryu’s DP aside EX just as Haztlan said
— Works vs all Ken’s DPs (O-O) aside super. Even backthrow safe-jump wasn’t that good
— Same with Akuma
— Fails against Guile’s flashkicks, I’ll do more testing later.

Anyway, great setup Neth, I apologize for not giving you credit before. You discovered something which is really worthier than my setups vs 3 framers. I wonder if it would work with other neutral jumps…

I logged on to say “hahaha eat shit and die trias”… You actually convinced me it didnt work even though i tested and it worked…

Anyways thnx for the picture analysis… was wondering about the crouch thing…

also just so u know i went back and tested and ex fba>Izuna>step back a twitch>st lk>J.MP and it works on every thin except ken hp dp. It even beats the crouch mk thing ryu does to stuff our j. mp…

Have a ken dominating my local scene so a lot of my time is spent on how to beat dp.

Busy with exams but the last thing i worked on is Ex fba>Izuna>just BEFORE vega moves RCF>Cr. mk (meaty) wait for the counter hit>ULTRA ULTRA ULTRA 2
sets yo really nice to kara mix ups. You might not get the ultra in an actual game but like all other cr mk meaty setup you can option slide and confirm into cr. mk, cr. mp, Ex FBA

[neth]

Oh yeah and some other lesser important mix up/setup are:

a)Ex FBA>Izuna>Immediate empty f. jump>as soon as vega steps fwd>cr. mk meaty
b)Ex FBA>Izuna>Immediate empty f. jump>as soon as vega steps fwd>Jump back. Hp (overhead)
c)Ex FBA>Izuna>Immediate empty f. jump>as soon as vega crouch>Ex Izuna (Cross up)
d)Ex FBA>Izuna>Immediate empty f. jump>as soon as vega crouch>Ex SCH (point blank Cross up)- If done at mid screen can follow up U1 (cannot be crouch blocked) very risky

[TriasNT]

I logged on to say “hahaha eat shit and die trias”… You actually convinced me it didnt work even though i tested and it worked…

Anyways thnx for the picture analysis… was wondering about the crouch thing…

It’s the least I could do to apologize. ˇoˇ

Now, I was really thinking the success of this setup was a pure matter of range ; the crouch status allowing you to delay even further the first hit of the DP. I can’t believe they added a hitbox to Ryu’s Knee just to ensure that it wouldn’t whiff, and same for the extra range for the EX DP (he just teleports forward from one frame into the other). =D

also just so u know i went back and tested and ex fba>Izuna>step back a twitch>st lk>J.MP and it works on every thin except ken hp dp. It even beats the crouch mk thing ryu does to stuff our j. mp…

I did similar tries, results are probably related to range too. But as you already provided us a good setup with the dash njMK, I would rely on it at the moment.

Have a ken dominating my local scene so a lot of my time is spent on how to beat dp.

Most of the time, I do mix real safe-jumps with empty jumps against characters who could beat the setup. That is generally enough to make Ken hesitate before reversing. Now, I won’t make the same error twice… and if anyone figure out something else, then they’re welcome. =)

[Korbidon]

When I play Ken I’m not really worried about Wakeup DP, I’m worried about his “better-than-mine” kara grab, damage output, and jump roundhouse

I find good Ken’s very hard to stop when they get on the offensive.

[TriasNT]

IMO, it’s 5-5. Good Kens can indeed body you very quicky, but I find their approach kinda telegraphed.

I mean, most of the time when going into Karathrow’s mix-ups, they start by closing in with a fsMK/step kick, so 80% of the time you can know that they’re going to throw you. It’s true that it has incredible range, so it’s hard to tech. But moves immune to throws (ST, neutral and backjumps, backdashes, etc.) do work very well if you have trouble/do not want to tech. =)

[TriasNT]

that sounds right,

I can think of some ways to try to explain why.
1 - there indeed some extra recovery added for late air moves. would explain the diffrence in both scenario but this contradicts with the last frame Ji.HK >> CH combo , now i haven’t tested that combo since vanilla so maybe it is no longer possible.
(…)
7 - this setup is not a frame accurate safejump, as you need to whiff a just frame cr.lp, if you are late one or two frames so is you jump and then so is your landing.

I see several ways to test things out,

I did some testing, with the backthrow safe-jump, and with my modified setups.

— Backthrow, immediate jump forward, late jMP
— Backthrow, immediate jump forward, no attack (empty jump)
— Backthrow, immediate jump forward, early JMP

Against Ken’s HP DP, the first setup is nailed, as expected. The empty jump, allows you to block the DP. The early jMP eats the shoryuken, so you were right Ajunta, every jumpin’ attack has 2 frames of recovery on landing, no matter when you do activate it.

With my setups (for example Izuna drop, whiffed cLK, jump forward, late jHK) the explanation that allows you to block 3 framers (to « fake » jump) relies purely on timing :

— If you’re perfectly frame accurate, in fact you land BEFORE opponent’s wake-up, so in time to block any reversal.
— If you’re late by one frame, then you will hit in the last active frame : it will works as a regular safe-jump (thus still eat 3 framers DPs), except it’s safe to 4 frames reversals (as Guile’s flaskicks).

It’s a kind of disguised empty jump in fact, except you can adjust your timing either to hit or just to bait. =)

EDIT : after some beating by Star (X_X), I decided to work out meaties. I measured knockdowns durations (to get CH-ST one) vs Ryu, if some of you are interested. My results are close to Meteo2’s ones.

Spoiler

— Izuna drop : wake-up at 59th frame (KD 58 fs)
— CH-ST : wake-up at 61th frame (KD 60 fs). Will vary with character quickstand speed, and possibly ST height.
— Backthrow : wake-up at 36th frame
— Forward throw : wake-up at 25th frame

According to those, after CH-ST, a CH done after an empty forward jump (43 fs), would be meaty. =)

[Xgrayninja]

I’ve found something that only works on Dee Jay. Following an EX FBA>izuna drop knockdown, execute HK Scarlet Terror, then immediately slide. You’ll teleport behing Dee Jay as he’s getting up, and be safe from reversals, grabs, etc.

Obviously, this doesn’t have that many applications, as your ability to apply any sort of pressure afterwards is pretty limited. Still, it could prove useful as a tricky way to bait Dee Jays’ EX Jacknife Maximum.